Alright Marines... now listen UP!

The following is a summary of my findings (and related info), together with my thoughts in relation to the VCRA which has had every UK collector of replica firearms' knickers in a twist since Oct 2007.

Disclaimer: Although fully qualified legal entities and UK Government bodies have been consulted, this article should not be taken as legal advice.

Summary - The VCRA:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/uk ... 60038_en_1



So, what's the deal? How can we continue to manufacture, import or collect?

(a) the purposes of a museum or gallery

^ That's how.

What's to stop 'we collectors' declaring our collections as a museum or gallery? The answer? Nothing.

To qualify my presumption, I put forward the following questions to the Museums, Libraries and Archives Council (MLA) www.mla.gov.uk - the UK government's agency for museums, galleries, libraries and archives. I posed a few questions - and in different ways - in order to cover any possible misinterpretation. Their reply is included:

• How would one get a domestic location granted legal status as a museum/gallery? Is there an application to send to a local council or similar?
If the museum were to be set up as a commercial business, I imagine that you would need to investigate the implications of this with the Planning section of your council. If the museum were to be a registered charity the implications might be different but again your council would provide advice.

• What's the legal definition of a museum or gallery - that which would be recognised in a court of law?
As far as a know there is no legal definition of a museum or gallery. Anyone can call anything a museum or gallery.

What is a museum?
The Museums Association agreed a definition in 1998. It says:

'Museums enable people to explore collections for inspiration, learning and enjoyment'.

'They are institutions that collect, safeguard and make accessible
artefacts and specimens, which they hold in trust for society.'

This definition includes art galleries with collections of works of art,
as well as museums with historical collections of objects.

• What criteria (if any) are to be meet in order to become a legally recognised museum? Is stating that a location is 'open to the public for viewing' enough to qualify?
There are no legal criteria related to setting up a museum but MLA Council's Museum Accreditation scheme defines the basic requirements for museums in the UK. Accreditation is a voluntary scheme and is only open to charitable museums or those run by public bodies.

Can anyone set up a privately owned and run museum (or gallery) i.e. in a domestic location?
The answer is yes, subject to any planning implications as mentioned above.

Would a collection of 'artifacts' in someone's home be legally recognised (by the Courts) as a museum or gallery if the owner allowed access to the public (even by invitation only)?
In my view as there is no legal definition of a museum, your question would not really apply.

Consultation with a lawyer also confirmed the above.

............


So, there you have it folks.

"...there is no legal definition of a museum or gallery. Anyone can call anything a museum or gallery.

As far as I see it, if a UK collector declares their collection as a Museum or Gallery they have a defence applying to the offence under s. 36 of the VCRA.

This defence is not a "workaround" or "loophole" - it is in full compliance of the Act and within the Law.

Regarding importing, there remains the issue of whether we ourselves (private individuals) are allowed to import but this article from Arnie's Airsoft forums appears to suggest that we can...



Onto the matter of purchasing and retailers in particular; as you will be aware, retailers will not sell to anyone who cannot prove they are a 'practicing skirmisher'. I'm guessing that the concept of a museum/gallery owner/curator purchasing RIFs has never even crossed their minds. Given their monetary motivations, I'm sure that retailers would lend us their full support in this.

I'm confident that we now potentially have a solid defence against the VCRA and can continue with our peaceful hobby unmolested if we declare our collections as a museum / gallery (NB: it will likely need to be actually 'open to the public' but could be by 'prior arrangement' only (I know certain military museums operate this way).

I'm not naiive enough to think that HMG won't get wind of this and ammend the VCRA again to thwart our freedoms so this may only buy us time.

A leading figure in the UK 'gallery scene' and a Lawyer both concurred that:

"...no one is ever immune from prosecution and so the onus would always be on the 'gallery/museum' to prove their display fitted the category. One way to do this may be to get together as it is not possible to prosecute an organisation under this Act with ease..."

"...you could set up some association of small museums, which could be promoted amongst other collectors. It would need to have a constitution and some sort of charter and code of conduct. For instance, I imagine there would be a requirement to make sure that any replicas were kept secure, that the risk of theft was minimised, and each museum would need to have a record of exactly what they have on display or in storage. I imagine that the purpose of the law is to make sure that lifelike replicas don't find themselves onto the streets and used in crimes, so there probably is a way to satisfy the authorities..."

Reading into the above, we would further strengthen our status as bona fide collectors by forming, let's say an...

'Association of RIF Collectors' (ARC)™

I'm yet to hear more from my legal consultant - but for now, it's over to you.
  

_________________
 
"Everybody online... lookin' good".
.

This needs careful reading on this......but what i did read ..interesting....

_________________
Pfc Glenn Allen ,
1st Batt. 69th Regiment,
Homers Hero's..
Drops so Far.... 29 and counting

i'm not even in th uk ,and i appreicatte all the work you put into this

_________________
"I am the ULTIMATE BADASS , state of the badass art"
Alpha squad. Burton's Bandits

Nice going Eagle.

I think one of my first reactions back when the bill came out was, what if we each invite a friend over to look at our prop collection and charge them £1? Would we then be a museum?

I was being flippant at the time, but your findings suggest there may be hope.

_________________
Mike

"We're not heroes - we're from Finchley"

Good drills that man.

I guess we'll just have to see how well it all stands up in court when someone gets pulled up!

Absolutely. The 'museum' angle COULD POSSIBLY BE VIEWED as a loophole to get around legal ownership ( especially as the info as to what actually constitutes a museum is somewhat vague ) , but it would take a few cases where someones defence was based on that 'museum' notion to set a precedent and get a feel for how the courts would judge similar cases in the future.

Fun times ahead for sure



Chris

 
As stated, it's not a loophole - it's well within the VCRA.

Anyway... don't know about you, but I'm off to buy a Replica Imitation Firearm...

http://www.eagletransporter.com/otherhardware.asp


 

_________________
 
"Everybody online... lookin' good".
.

Isn't this OT,Airsoft,or UKCM section?

Sorry don't mean to be rude.

It is, but see stickies in this section; Harry recognised the importance of the "UK bans the import of replica weapons/props" thread and I'm hoping this one is seen as pretty significant too.

Perhaps, when a decision is made, the mods could do another post in the OT area linking to this?...

_________________
 
"Everybody online... lookin' good".
.

Actually as we're tightening down slightly on what's posted where I'm going to move this to the UKCM section.

My reasons are primarily of course that the subject matter is only relevant to the UK members of the AL. I hope everyone understands.

Good work there Eagle - much appreciated!

Harry

_________________

http://www.facebook.com/TheHHACA - @TheHHACA

 
Yeah, that's cool - no problem.

What I'll do though, once you've moved it, is link from the original 'Ban' thread.
 

_________________
 
"Everybody online... lookin' good".
.

How about if you make the first line of your shipping address 'Eagle Museum' or 'Eagle Gallery'?

Just wondering though... where can we go now to buy the things?

All the shops I've seen have defaulted to the stupid clear ones... Propstore refuse to sell gun props to the UK... and the online airsoft suppliers (presumably) want some proof of airsoft club membership. Where does that leave us?

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Mike

"We're not heroes - we're from Finchley"

Would this mean that websites such as mine or Harry's would be suitable reasoning for purchasing RIFs, assuming they're going to end up in an archive of sorts?

_________________

In that case i'd like to announce the "Sidewinder Museum of Sci-Fi" duly open. Viewing is available by appointment, also the collection will travel to various sci-fi events during the year.

SAS

_________________
Alan T. Alien
1st Lt Smith, SA "Sidewinder"
A13/TQ1.4.19720EX CMA
Founder of UKCM 13th Regt. 1st Batt. Freebooters
Founder of Special Armaments Section (Heavy Weapons)
"People don't understand. people like me"

Also what about '(c) the production of films' - would fanfilm making be covered under this?

SAS

_________________
Alan T. Alien
1st Lt Smith, SA "Sidewinder"
A13/TQ1.4.19720EX CMA
Founder of UKCM 13th Regt. 1st Batt. Freebooters
Founder of Special Armaments Section (Heavy Weapons)
"People don't understand. people like me"

And that is why I highlighted the part of my post ' could possibly be viewed' in bold. Note the 'could' in that statement.

And that's because of this:

'As far as a know there is no legal definition of a museum or gallery. Anyone can call anything a museum or gallery. '

The VCRA is an act with a legal definition. Part of that act includes reference to museums which it appears have no legal definition. A pivotal point of an act with no legal definition itself is what I was referring to as a possible loophole.

So to set a hypothetical scenario, Person A is busily spray painting a
replica weapon to look realistic in his own home when the meter reader turns up to read the meters and all he sees is Person A painting up a gun to look like a real one. He reports it and the next thing is you have the police on your doorstep throwing a caution at you following a report of a bloke painting up toy guns to look like real ones in his house and they start going through the procedure of investigating things.

Person A's defence that his house is a museum of sci-fi guns or whatever you may wish to call it , and having been charged under the Act , that then goes to court for the case to be heard.

Seeing as Person A's defence is that his collection of shooters within his house is a museum, will that defence hold up in the court? What other mitigating factors are there to substantiate the 'museum' claim? That is something for the courts to decide especially as it doesn't appear that there is anything set in stone to define what is and isn't a museum or any legal requirements.

It's a bit like applying the ' reasonable person' point of view that is used in other offences. Would an average person on the street consider it as being a museum? Possibly they might, yet again they might not.

I'm not aware of any cases that have been heard yet with regards to the museum angle, so until some are heard and some sort of precedent is set then it is in my opinion still very much an uncertain line to tread.

I can only imagine that if someone with ill intent was charged under this act and was found not guilty having played the museum card then an amendment to the Act to tighten it up would be forthcoming.

Like I said, having a defence based on something that has no legal definition ( museums) within a piece of criminal law legislation is potentially open to abuse, hence the loophole remark.



Chris

UKCMM. United Kingdom Colonial Marine Museum? Although I'd go with collection.

After all we all have collections on display, not many of us have them set up like a museum.

_________________
STEVENSON F.
A11/TQ0.0.82148E1

"You are not your Drop Count."

I was thinking about this same thing last night Fal and I think your defence would be stronger using that type of scenario than just someone collecting RIF's in their own home, however is that defence strong enough to convince the courts?

This is the big grey area in my eyes - there's no apparent set in stone legal definition of what constitutes a museum or not. How would a court view it? How would a jury possibly view it? Who *£$%^&! knows.

One thing I learnt from having worked within the legal system is that ' the law's an arse' and we're seeing that here



Chris

Yes - to purchase, you need a letter of intent of use with a production company letterhead.

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It would be interesting to see how a court would react to if someone charged under the VCRA claimed that a handful of movie prop replicas from Master Replicas, off the shelf kits and so on mixed in with some RIF's was indeed a museum.

Go for it and find out





Chris

 
I've been emailing airsoft suppliers today asking if they will sell to a museum (as it is a defence under the VCRA)...

Replies are coming in and evidently, it's causing shockwaves. Initially the replies are "yeah sure, buddy "

Then it hits them...

$$$

Updates as they come in.
 

_________________
 
"Everybody online... lookin' good".
.

I really appreciate the hard work you've put in to this Eagle.

But, to be honest, it isn't the kind of defence for collectors and costumers I was hoping for.

I myself just couldn't see it standing up in court (if it came to that), that anyone in the UK could class their home as a Museum/Gallery, just because they've got (or want) a couple of airsoft guns.

But I am obviously, very interested to see how this possibly develops.

Could the UKCM and it's members as a whole be classed in some way as an organisation that puts on exhibitions/displays at various venues around the country?

_________________
Martin 'Victim' Victory
A86/TQ3.4.49421E3
UKCM 13th Regt. 1st Batt. Freebooters


you can't take the PUNK outa Spunkmeyer

"...there is no legal definition of a museum or gallery. Anyone can call anything a museum or gallery.





I've written to many suppliers and most are happy to sell to me if I provide a 'purchase order' on letterheaded paper. One also asked to see proof of having Third Party Liability Insurance.


The man has a damn good point I think. However, the problem is that you would still have to declare your collection as a museum/gallery.

_________________
 
"Everybody online... lookin' good".
.

They probably mean Public Liability Insurance, which you'd need if inviting members of the public onto your property.

The insurer might want to see proff of fire safety checks, etc.

Keep us updated with how you get on.

_________________
Steve
Corporal in 69th Regt. 1st Batt. Homer’s Heroes.

"I'd like to die at the age of 80 in my own bed, with a belly full of wine and a girl's mouth around my c**k."

 
Thanks.

Guys, feel free to carry out some of the groundwork yourselves. As much as I'd like to; I can't take-on the world on my own. I have businesses to run and, to be honest, am running out of steam! Talk to dealers, consult 'arty types', speak to the Citizen's Advice Bureau... do something - or you'll lose your 'right' to collect FOREVER.


 

_________________
 
"Everybody online... lookin' good".
.