Then don't go see them! Don't buy the dvd. Vote with your dollar.

I know that certain movies will be crap... and don't watch them.

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"Does the movie have flaws? Yes. Does it lack character development? Yes. But I think it was a solid effort for a 'vs' film."

If the movie has flaws and doesn't have character development then it's not really a solid effort at all. Add to that the massive plot hole of a story and you really don't have anything. The whittled down fights don't even give it any saving grace, and the acting is piss poor from a bunch of non talented actors, who add nothing to the cannon fodder characters that they play.

It's a very poor film, and slapping James Cameron and Ridley Scott's name might not make a difference now that they have changed directing styles over the years, only restore some hope that a future film might actually be decent. Let's hope if they do make an alien film together they go back to the routes that the Strause Brothers failed to follow with this film.

A good AvP film is achievable, it just needs the talent to pull it off.

_________________
www.jonathanmcenroe.net

Not everything Paul WS touches turns to crap: Piccy of his missus



I hear what you're saying though, just trying to lift the mood of this thread a little



Chris

*Rant on*

Screw Predators in an Alien movie. These movies were always going to be crap. It's a horrible, retarded, comic-book concept that should have stayed there.

Scott, Cameron, Giler and Weaver all nailed it it with their disdain for the concept and how it would fuck up the chances of there ever being another proper Alien movie.

Resurrection may have been a piece of crap, but the series could have been saved with a decent concept and director.

*Rant off*

double post

Damn that luck swine!

Sorry I don't mean to snap out, but, when your childhood is raped for the third time in a row (including Resurrection in this btw) then it pisses one off a bit.


ME 20th CENTURY FOX

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www.jonathanmcenroe.net

But this is effectively what the Alien vs. Predator comics and video games were/are: unitellactually stimulating material riding on the coat tails of great science fiction. They are a vehicle for a fantasy and some good mindless action. And they rely more on the action and creatures to carry the story. And if you really sit down and look at the AVP comics that spawned all of this they are really pretty uninteresting without the nasties, and there is little to no character development. In ALIEN and ALIENS the stories were about the people, about humanity - and because of that we could go half the movie before seeing an alien, or having any real action. AVP has never been about humanity. And once it progressed to video games it became a completely action oriented concept where story (if any) took the far back seat. The target audience for AVP are not the 40 and 50 year old fans that saw ALIEN in the theater - it's the adolescent/college aged folks that know the concept of AVP from comics and games. A generation that wants to see the instant gratification of action.

I'm not saying AVP-R is a great film, it's not. It's shallow, 2 dimensional, has vapid characters, vacant dialog, numerous plot wholes, and some questionable VFX, but when I look at the film within the context of what Alien vs. Predator is, and what it's roots are, I find it to be a fun and enjoyable film. I feel the film could have benefited from some closer attention and a bigger budget (only $40 million compared to AVP's $45), but even so I feel that the Strause Bros. pretty much nailed the mark on what this film should be and where it came from.

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God....what a big pile of shit that film was!

If you like cheesy movies then you'll love this! If your like me,and you like film with story and structure then avoid this pile of pooh at all costs!!

AVP-R to me = 1/10


Bri

_________________
In Space No One Can Hear You Scream ...
Dave Xeno - missed but never forgotten......

It was so darn dark during the fight scenes that you could never tell whjat exactly was happening.

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Private B. Lipnick
A07/TQ1.0.02161E1

~funny name, serious attitude~

Well I have stayed away from this forum on purpose so that the views that people on this forum have, would not spoil my ideas and perception of this movie. I went to see it last night with my wife, daughter and son in law.
Hey guess what kiddies, regardless of what is said here we all thought the movie rocked. Why well, first off the aliens were back to their Alien best, the Predator is the same as the first one, people were treated like fodder which is exactly what would happen, the National Guard turned out to be wannabes. There was suspense, horror, and who gives a damn if there wasn't some female as the lead. Ripley was an idiot who turned every situation into a killing spree for the Aliens.
These are movies made to entertain first and foremost.
One other thing the second movie Aliens is not the law or canon that is often espoused here, that dictates how movies with Aliens in it are made, if you want to split hairs the only TRUE certified movie to base you ideas on is ALIEN, everything else is secondary to that.
The way Alien was made was to allow your imagination to expand where ever you wanted it to go, there were no absolutes, except one, the Aline was a fantastic creation, which I might add James Cameron saw fit to alter to suit his view, to the detriment of the creature.
One last bit of heresey, if the Colonial Marines from A2 ever did in all reality face a swarm of Aliens, due to their pitiful discipline and tactics, they would be sliced and diced in a matter of micro seconds regardless of who they had leading them.
Come on appreciate this movie as it is, a great and entertaining shoot. Now I am sure you will all come at me like ravaging beserkers to justify your views, but as I have been on this site for 5-6 years now, I feel I have the right to write what I think, if not well mods you can throw me of if you like, I have always thought this site above all others held a balanced and positive view, after reading some of the other posts I see that is no longer true.

Iain King

Well said iain ...i have not seen AVP R yet will wait until it comes here in january...but i will agree with the rest of what you said....in fact you said it a lot better than i would have said it... all these films are sequals or spin offs of Ridley scott's Alien... and every director that came after him keeps altering the design of the Alien / facehugger/ chestbursters / eggs.....

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Pfc Glenn Allen ,
1st Batt. 69th Regiment,
Homers Hero's..
Drops so Far.... 29 and counting

I must strongly disagree with this. In my opinion, the original/first Aliens Vs. Predator comic (issues #0 through #4 from Dark Horse, revolving around Machiko Noguchi as the main character) is a great comic book mini-series. In my opinion it IS intellectually stimulating material. The action in it is NOT mindless because it all stems as means to an end: survival. I feel that her character (and that of the lead Predator) carry the story well. Not the action.

I think your post / your opinion as written might turn potential readers of that particular comic book series away from reading it & I think that would be quite unfortunate.

That new saying, "Don't judge a book by its MOVIE" is appropriate in this case & credit should be paid where it is due. Dark Horse's first AVP comic warrants a look. In my opinion, it's a classic and a keeper.

AVP:R is shite, in my opinion (even though I like the costume / creature suit / animatronic / prosthetic creature effects). However, I still stand by AVP1 and say it is the better movie since, in some ways, it was closer to the spirit of the original (and well-done) AVP comic.

I can't speak about other AVP comic series since I have yet to read them, but to label the original as not worth reading is unfair.

sidemachine
A02/TQ.2.0.32145E1

AVP comic book list
http://www.angelfire.com/pro/avp/avpcomics.html

The collected paperback (coloring differs from original print):
http://images.darkhorse.com/covers/med/a/avptpb.jpg

My verdict:



I don't want for much and am generally pretty easy to please. I even really like Alien3 and found AVP alright and if it's got my beloved bugs in it then im usually happy enough, until this........this..wtf....good god.

RIP the alien franchise....again

Saw it today, and believe it or not (FLAMESHIELD ON!) I enjoyed it for what it was - an action-shootemup-monster flick where a lot of people die.

I think everyone needs to settle down a little bit It's Aliens vs. Predator, guys. You played the old AvP arcade game, right? That's what this is. If you go see this movie expecting a lot of blood and rawr and shit exploding along with a couple of movie creatures you grew up loving, you will enjoy it. ^_^ If you go into it expecting a rich continuance to two of the most recognizable monster series' in all of Sci-Fi, with well-developed characters and a deep plot that does more than look for as many ways to tie in references to the previous movies as possible, you will be disappointed. It's that simple!

Don't stroll up to an arcade machine, drop in a quarter, and expect Half-Life 2 to start playing. This movie was exactly what I expected it to be, and I had fun watching it... my two credits, take em for what they're worth!

_________________

CPL Sean Maio A01/TQ2.0.72156E1
Public Relations Division (Temporary Cross-Assignment)
M-56 Smartgun Operator, A/3Btn, II CMEF, USS Sephora

Everyones opinion here is equally valid. That we choose to have different ones is all part of it. One mans meat is another mans poison and all that. If your expectations aren't met ( and mine were seriously low before i sat down to watch this latest incarnation ) then ones opinion will reflect that.

I went into watching this film with a very open mind and not expecting much at all. To be brutally honest if the aliens delivered and everything else was utter arse then I would have been somewhat happy becauae that's my thing over everything else. My opinion of it is based on the fact that my expectations were rock bottom, and even then they weren't met.

Simple as that. I can't flower that up and try and put some spin on it to make it sound good when in my heart im shaking my head and reaching for the Alien Resurrection DVD as a form of reverse therapy

Like all the films before it there will be much discussion over the whole thing for a while yet. Opinions will vary but at least here we can air our differing views in a civil way.....sort of

Music wasn't bad though



Chris

time for my two cents...

my dad and i went to see it Saturday in Petoskey, and we agreed on it...

as far as a movie goes, it was pretty decent. even if the NG guys were wiped out in about two seconds (but if you think, so was most of the Colonial Marine squad in Aliens), the PredAlien seemed to have a vendetta against pregnant women (which my dad and i also agree that this aspect of the movie was slightly too disturbing), and i think the aliens did look kind of strange (but i havent seen Resurrection, so i dont know what everybody's talking about).

As far as an AVP movie goes, yes, it could have been better; but at the same time, the Xenos still had that same kind of dark, slightly scary presence, the Pred was as kick butt as any Pred i've seen, and the human characters served nicely as fodder to the Pred and Xenos.

the parts i didnt like are as follows(in order of importance):

1. the blonde girl (i think she had the hots for that Ricky kid) dies by Pred Shuriken...very sad

2. again, the hospital scene with the pregnant women...nuff said

3. the NG guys didnt appear that bad at first, but then they were wiped out by the Xenos in seconds...Kev, you and i (and probably some of the others too) knew they should have called in the Marines ...

the parts i really enjoyed are as follows(in order of importance):

1. the Pred...shows quite some resourcefulness...such as when the Xeno jumps on him in the store, and later he makes a "handgun" out of the broken pieces of the two burners (the Pred term for the plasma caster)

2. again, the Pred...this time when he takes some of the stasis fluid out of the tube, and puts it in his wrist console, allowing him to track the facehuggers by following the "slime trails"...

and please refrain from flaming me...everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and im not flaming anyone who doesnt like it...my dad and i just happened to like it, is all.

_________________
Squad Leader, 58th Regt., 2nd Batt., "Morse's Marauders" - U.S.S. Azuera
Primary MOS: Rifleman
Secondary MOS: Combat Demolitions

"When the going gets tough, the tough call on the Colonial Marines."

OK I haven't seen the movie yet- and at this rate I'll probably wait until I can rent it...


But I must say I'm a wee bit taken aback at the tone of some posts.

If you liked the movie- say you liked it! If you hated it, go ahead and rant away!

We really shouldn't be worried that one's opinion isn't just as valid as another's- nor should we be concerned that our opinion will be met with animosity. The board hasn't become something evil simply because there are some strong opposing views on this subject. We're all Marines here (Well... except for the bugs. But it seems that we've accepted that even they we're Marines at one time too. ).

We're talking about a movie here folks- nothing more.

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I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

I liked it. I'll watch it again. In fact, I will even buy the movie. It was based upon the game A vs P and did exactly what we wanted.....gore. On a different thread, I said I hated the predalien. After seeing the movie, I thought he was an excellent bad guy. It was cool (in a sick way) the way the predalien impregnated the pregnant ladies. My wife was cringing at that part. I thought twins popping out was also a brilliant twisted idea. I also knew that boundary's were crossed when the little boy gets done in. This movie had lots of different parts from the other movies, kinda like a collage of both franchises or maybe just honoring the other movies. I loved the sound track, especially near the end with the helicopter. "Get to the chopper" I only wished the movie was longer so they could have developed the human & pred characters better. Maybe they have an extended version ~crosses fingers~ My son, being the pred geek that he is, told me that predator was like some kind of "Marshal" to clean up other pred mistakes. He read this in some book (not sure which one) so it makes sense with the "cover up" acid. Yeah, it wasn't Aliens or even Aliens "Part Two" with USCM but I thought it was still a pretty good movie.
Much better then some chick flick.
I rate it 4 M40 grenades out of 5.

Mike

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There is nothing more impressive than a bloody big Alien wiggling on the end of a sharp stick!

I think, really, there was no reason they could not have served both markets. No reason why the studio and supervising producers could not have made a film with a solid story, captivating characters AND all the gore and violence, and monster action we all want to see.

I've said it before, I didn't want to see an hour and a half FX reel, but that's what I paid to see. A really good FX reel, not a cinematic story. It's what the Strauss Brothers did before directing, they did special effects. These guys are not storytellers on any level.

I didn't feel they were honoring the past films, because what they did take from the other films they just didn't do well with. I think to truly honor something it has to be at least as good as what you're honoring. I hope that make sense.

Like Kevin said, this is just my opinion, and it's just a movie. It is however a subject matter we all feel passion for. It's a franchise we love to debate over, talk about, argue about, and feel a part of.

I've never played the video games, but I can tell you right now that the comic books published by dark horse over the years dealing with aliens vs predators have been very good. They have not been:



Firstly, I don't think any of the films have been intellectual. They have been visceral, exciting, well told, and visually stunning.

But many of the AVP comics I have read, including the first mini-series published, were very good reads. Very satisfying sci-fi.

Really, no reason they could not have used that old briggs script based on the first mini series for this film.

Anyway, what could have been. I think some elements of the film had potential to be great.

Profiler and Myself went to go see it last night. Loved it.

I can see why they referred to the Predator as "Wolfe" since that is what she was doing, working as a "Cleaner". Although it was quite stupid to kill the deputy and remove all flesh. Yeah, that's what Preds do... but seriously.

*Gasp* Did I refer to Wolfe as a "she"? Look at the Pred. Taller, skinnier, an hourglass waist, nice necklace, bits of armor covering what I only assume are Predatory Mammary. There has to be cool points for AVP-R having the first female Pred on screen.

Was the Predalien "seeding" the women's eggs? Jebus, that is raw terror folks! How many eggs does an average fertile woman have at any given time?

All in all, saw it in a theater full of high school/college girls and African-American folk who talk to the screen. It was a great experience.

It wasn't Shakespeare or even Cameron. But it did what it was supposed to.

_________________

In case anyone didn't know- this is a reference to Harvey Keitel's character "Winston Wolfe" (aka "The Wolf") in "Pulp Fiction". "The Wolf" is called in to clean up Vincent and Jules mess after they shot someone in the face in the back of the car they were driving.

Carry on.

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I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

Not sure the predator in this movie is female, although I havn't seen anything that officially says it isn't mind you.Would be a pretty interesting concept that though.

I was led to believe that they wanted to return to the sleeker physique of the original predators as opposed to the AVP ones that were deemed too big and beefed up, especially with all that armour on.I've read somewhere they were able to incorporate Ian Whytes actual bodyshape better with this one in AVPR.

Ummm the chest armour is only on one side as per the original pred, sooo unless the pred had a mastectomy at some stage then that kind of goes against your theory Ya never know, maybe predator's only have one boob

As for the necklace, wasn't it an assortment of little skulls and things or did I miss something?

As for the eggs/predalien doing it's implantation issue. Human biology will tell you that there's no seeding of any woman's eggs going on with the way the predalien does what it does. It's just implanting it's little brood I presume much like a facehugger would but in multiples. The preggers woman thing I think is nothing more than a cheap shock gag straight out of the cheesy gorefest horror movie cliche book. Let's try and turn up the cringe and shock factor by having a maternity ward scene.

It just goes so much against the foundation that made some of the original 'alien' films what they are that it saddens me no end. Maybe if these 2 chimps that were let loose on this film had put as much effort into turning out a decent movie as they did dreaming ott stuff like this up then things might have been different.

Cameron summed it up nicely when he said:

'You don't create fear with gore, you create disgust ' .Gets a thumbs up from me.

George Lucas - are you reading? If you want Darth Vader in hotpants doing a cancan whilst juggling 3 jawas in your Star Wars TV show then hire these guys.



Chris

WOW talk about a perverbial downer.

Though from the clip of the first 5 mins I saw online,I was very impressed with that & am truely looking forward to the AVP-R release.

Glad to see some did enjoy the film.

I know I`ve not seen it yet though I look at the AVP franchise like this,they will NEVER be able to appease both Aliens & Predator fans & finding a middle ground is pretty difficult.
The Dark Horse comics worked IMHO due to the fact that comics like a novel leave a varying about of Self creation to the storyline.
A movie tends NOT to do that or the viewers are not interested in doing that.

As said I`ve not seen it yet,so won`t really know till it`s out over here,though I did enjoy AVP.
That they could have made the film(s) better,well that`s true though would that please all or would we still find some wanting a different direction or more?

You can never appeal to everyone with a movie & to deal with a fandome of a genre,well that`s taking it to a whole new level.

Jason

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What ya gonna do when I TECKNO HUG Youuuuu!!



Pvt.
STEAD,J "TECKNO VIKING"
A06/TQ1.0.22140E1

Skype: ulthur1

That really isn't what I meant by my earlier comment. I was talking about about the "markets" as in age. You know, the marketing folks say things like "the 18 to 34 market" and such.

They don't really need to find a middle ground, what middle ground exactly? They need to tell a compelling and interesting story.

I tend to think that fans of the Alien films are also fans of the Predator films. I don't really know anyone who likes one and hates the other. I think you can certainly makes fans of these films happy though with an AVP story.

This film was sort of Dawson's Creek meets Predator. It had a lot of good looking kids in it, a few clueless adults, and some monsters in shoe stores.

And the tacked on ending, obviously made to setup AVP3, was what the whole film should have been about IMHO.



Again, I respectfully disagree. I think many films have done this quite successfully. Especially science fiction films.

I'm not saying the films HAD to match the comics anyway, I'm just saying that script Peter Briggs wrote was so much better than this one. Seems like common sense to me. Bad films get made all the time, I just hate it when they happen to a good franchise.



Yeah, me too. Although gore doesn't bother me, and if it's involved in a tense story and is used to help tell the story, it can be quite effective. I thought the violence in the movie looked great.

I wasn't even offended by the pregnant mom/baby thing. By that time in the film I just felt like I was watching pointless scene after pointless scene strung together by actors who run through sets going "Come on!" and "Hurry up!" anyway.

I was more offended that they put that God awful line about the Titanic in there.

hahahahaha.

Hey, if you liked the movie I certainly have nothing against that. Maybe once it's on cable and I watch it again I'll be able to get that kind enjoyment out of it too.

All I know is that on the first viewing I hated the film based on the (lack of) creative choices they made involving the story line, the setting, and the characters.

The monsters were good, and I knew they would be because of the Stauss boys background. There was really no reason for the predalien though, nothing truly unique about it, it could have just been any other alien running around, and the story would have been the same.

There`s a Titanic ref?

I wasn`t gunning at you Noel,it was just a general view of mine mate,though I do see your answers to the points you raised as valid.

As the old saying goes,the proofs in the eating of the pudding. I`ll let you know when we get the film over here

Jason

_________________
What ya gonna do when I TECKNO HUG Youuuuu!!



Pvt.
STEAD,J "TECKNO VIKING"
A06/TQ1.0.22140E1

Skype: ulthur1