I hate to throw a spanner in the works and I know we have the voting thread but I can't help think that whacking massive patches all over a dress uniform is just wrong.

The purpose of this is to create what the USCM would wear as a dress uniform therefore surely we should pay attention to how dress uniforms are designed and create our own version of the US Marine's dress uniform but for the USCM.

No dress uniform that I've ever seen carries a detatchment badge (like the Sulaco one) or anything else - they're smart, minimal and look the business.

I understand that we don't want to look like a US Marine but we don't want to look like we've just bodged a US Marine's dress uniform by whacking on patches either which is what it's going to look like; we're adding our own buttons and pins which are really going to go unnoticed if we have the screaming animal and detachment patches.



Now this I do like the sound of and wouldn't look wrong on the shoulders either:



We could further change the cuffs by adding U S C M badges instead of the buttons - again to show that we're not wearing a US Marine's uniform whilst keeping the smart look.



The border on the rank insignia should also be red as green introduces yet another colour and looks weird IMHO.

If the plan is to move as far away as possible from the US Marine's dress uniform whilst maintaining the look then why don't we go for custom jackets, I know they're more expensive but surely we could shop around and ask for discount for ordering however many we're going to want?

This would allow us to completely create our own take on the USCM Dress Uniform and wouldn't step on anyone's toes either.

This is just another idea and is only my opinion of course - here endeth the rant

_________________
Paul "Dust" Massey
A05/TQ1.0.22148E1


Phoenix Rising | My Blog | Facebook | MySpace

XBox Live: "the DustRoom" | Wii: 7062 7508 0398 7441

If we go with red-bordered rank, we may as well stick with current USMC dress rank.

The green in the modded pics isn't supposed to be there; it had been decided that since they used Army rank insignia in the movie, that Army dress blue rank would be used here. The backing should be midnight blue with gold chevrons.

Your "USCM" idea on the cuff is innovative!

Truth be told, however, this project is honestly no longer exciting me the way it did in the beginning. It's becoming a headache. The idea of a USCM Dress Uniform had me drooling in the beginning and there've been some great ideas thrown out there.

However, due to the simple fact that we're using actual USMC dress blue jackets, the patches are (IMHO) an absolute necessity... hands down. Without blatant patches, insignia, etc, this uniform will simply be immediately regarded as a true USMC uniform and the entire intent was to NOT do that... which is why Kevin didn't want to go with the dress blue jacket in the first place.

I hate to see people going, "Eh... I don't really like that but I'll go along with it..." I think the excitement about the project should be palpable and something people would want to wear not because everyone else is, but because they like what they and everyone here has come up with and want to be involved in wearing it.

I don't really see that at the moment; slap me if I'm wrong.

Anyways, I'm bowing out of this thread for the time being. I'll keep tabs on what's going on, however.

_________________
CPL Conley, D. A06/TQ2.0.72147E1



"To err is human; to forgive, divine... Neither of which is Marine Corps policy."
"In Onoraigh Ar Marbh" ~ We Honor Our Fallen

Canadian ones do, so there's a precedent.

Except that the accepted EU (Tech Manual) states that although they are wearing the Army version, they use the Marine rank nomenclature by adding USMC ranks in the quotes (such as the Lance Corporal mentioned above).

Point finale.

You just HAD to play the EU card on me, eh? Drop and give me 25, scumbag!

That's my point - i don't think we should be using the USMC uniform as it's restricting the project and is causing us to have to "make do" with what we can do instead of actually designing and creating our own based on the USMC uniform.

I think the custom jacket that was linked to (can't find the blighter now) looked great - close enough to the USMC uniform but more modern and different enough for it to become the USCM uniform - quite expensive yes but there must be other options?

My take is that if we're going to create the uniform we should create it and ensure it fits with how dress uniforms should look and not rush this project.

RANT RANT - haha; it's fun really.

_________________
Paul "Dust" Massey
A05/TQ1.0.22148E1


Phoenix Rising | My Blog | Facebook | MySpace

XBox Live: "the DustRoom" | Wii: 7062 7508 0398 7441

Of course I had to play the EU card. How else could I justify the bombs I was wearing on my epulettes all D'con (and yes, they were US Army officer EoD bombs to maintain the standardization).

Just remember you're the one who found that the USMC had a CWO that went by the nomenclature Gunner


WookieeGunner
aka Gunner Wookowski.

Im just wondering...if when they made Aliens if they all sat around and debated:

Well, we cant use a WW2 Steel pot because its not in good taste..

Well, we cant use Army ranks because someone might not like that.

Well, we cant use MG42s as the Smartgun base because some German guy might have flashbacks...

Well, we cant use a Thompson Machine gun because some gangster from New York might get offended..

Well, If we use a Remington 870 then some red neck in a tree stand hunting deer might go home and slap his wife around because he is mad...

Well, we shouldnt use a little blonde girl because the brunettes and redheads of the world might have a hissy fit..and the little boys might call it sexist that we didnt use a male child...


I dont think they did...they used what looked GOOD...and to me, the modern day USMC uniform is the sharpest one. Besides...why would a bunch of Colonial Marines use something NOT regular Marine tradition?? If we went to Dragon Con with a made up costume trying to do Dress Blues, it would definately get looked over...like we were just putting a costume together JUST for the sake of having a costume, like SO many people there do. We would just be another unrecognizable bunch having to answer "who are you guys supposed to be?" about a thousand times.
If we had traditional Marine gear with the alterations we are talking about, then thats where the WOW factor comes in...I know DC goers...I know how the costuming deal works there..Ive been going far too many years. You see the guys dressed as cops from Reno 911 all the time..and Ive yet to see the cops in Atlanta patroling DC EVER tell them its in poor taste...or when I see the Umbrella Corp (or whatever it is) and all the Swat type of gear, I dont see SWAT coming down on them...

So, why all the fuss about using the Traditional Marine uniform..altered to our specs???


Derek

_________________
Cpl D. Smith CMD
A04/TQ1.0.62147E1


RIP Pvt. Chris Chulamanis A14/TQ4.0.66993E7 You are missed.

Hear, hear!

Something l'd REALLY like to know... who's ACTUALLY plannin on getting this uniform made for themselves? Can I see a show of names?

- Dom
-

That would be interesting to know...

We all had agreed that price was a big factor in this..and getting anyone to tailor a full custom uniform would get a bit pricey...


Derek

_________________
Cpl D. Smith CMD
A04/TQ1.0.62147E1


RIP Pvt. Chris Chulamanis A14/TQ4.0.66993E7 You are missed.

Wish you good luck... I know it's hell... been fighting it for a couple of years!

Who's next on the list?

- Dom
- WookieeGunner (thought I'm looking to loose a bit more weight first)
-

- Dom
- WookieeGunner
- Derek (uscm grunt)

_________________
Cpl D. Smith CMD
A04/TQ1.0.62147E1


RIP Pvt. Chris Chulamanis A14/TQ4.0.66993E7 You are missed.

The Dress uniform will be placed on list right after the armour.


- Dom
- WookieeGunner
- Derek (uscm grunt)
-101radioman

_________________
SFC
Michael Larson
Minnesota-USA

A03/TQ1.0.92141E1

Be safe to add Kevin I guess...

- Dom
- WookieeGunner
- Derek (uscm grunt)
- 101radioman
- Kevin

(Yeah, look, I just can't stay away from inputting on this thread...)

The jacket Kevin posted was a police dress uniform jacket with a collar exactly like that of the USMC dress blue jacket.

The major differences were that the police jacket had red piping on the top only... not down the front and bottom like the USMC jacket.

In addition, the police jacket did not have lower pockets; the USMC jacket does.

it was a great find because, at a glance, it looks very much like the USMC dress blue jacket... but it's not. There's no question about it.

The $349 price point dissuaded folks from it, however; and really, when you're dealing with dress uniforms, prices are going to be high.

BTW, put me on the list above. I want to do this uniform. I saw nothing like what we want to do at D*Con. Nothing. The idea of a bunch of us in dress uniform is just awesome, which is why I was so excited by this thread when I first found it.

_________________
CPL Conley, D. A06/TQ2.0.72147E1



"To err is human; to forgive, divine... Neither of which is Marine Corps policy."
"In Onoraigh Ar Marbh" ~ We Honor Our Fallen

I agree, I think that's a lot smarter looking. I think the real USMC one is over-piped.

But my participation, at least, would depend upon finding one MUCH cheaper than $349.

_________________
Jay Pennington

More sexy meat for the grinder...

- Dom
- WookieeGunner
- Derek (uscm grunt)
- 101radioman
- Kevin
- Derek C. (Devil Dog)
-

- Dom
- WookieeGunner
- Derek (uscm grunt)
- 101radioman
- Kevin
- Derek C. (Devil Dog)
- the DustRoom
-

Looking at that Marlow White website again a full dress uniform from them including trousers & service cap looks as though it'll run about $500; possibly less if we can put in a big order.

That makes it less than a set of armour and helmet (to put into context) which to me isn't too bad and guarantees them all being the same and none of them being faded or slightly different colours etc.

It's not cheap but it is doing things properly; we have the opportunity to set the standard here.

I know I'm rattling on and on but this is quite important.

_________________
Paul "Dust" Massey
A05/TQ1.0.22148E1


Phoenix Rising | My Blog | Facebook | MySpace

XBox Live: "the DustRoom" | Wii: 7062 7508 0398 7441

- Dom
- WookieeGunner
- Derek (uscm grunt)
- 101radioman
- Kevin
- Derek C. (Devil Dog)
- the DustRoom
- WDI - I'd like to, though I do have to prioritise a bit financially so we'll see.




For all the fuss over using a regular USMC jacket think about this...
If we have a custom jacket made, in midnight blue with red piping and our own badges and buttons on how different is it going to look from an ex USMC jacket in midnight blue with red piping and our own badges and buttons on??
Answer... Not very.

It seems that alot of people are very concerned about using a surplus USMC jacket simply because it was once worn by a marine; yet a custom jacket that looks almost exactly the same after we've finished with it doesn't concern them. Is this not over-worrying? Especially since it seems from polling a number of serving marines that they really aren't bothered by it at all.

I can understand the patriotism surrounding the uniform, I feel the same for my uniform - when it's worn as my uniform.
If some guy wants to buy a RAF No.1 jacket, change a bunch of buttons, put on his own custom insignia to make his own sci-fi costume it makes absolutly no difference to me. Nor would it to any of the guys I know.
Are we perhaphs being a little too over cautious?

If the cuffs are a big concern it really won't be a difficult job to remove them. Certainly far less time and effort than painting a set of armour or assembling a resin pulse rifle.
The jacket would look substantially different without them as they are a major feature.

_________________
"The other Gareth"

Dom
- WookieeGunner
- Derek (uscm grunt)
- 101radioman
- Kevin
- Derek C. (Devil Dog)
- the DustRoom
- WDI -
- Hollis DZC

_________________


USCM- The Colonial Marines- A Brotherhood of Bad Asses!

WDI- could you throw us a tutorial on the cuff alteration?

If it is fairly easy I would be interested in altering the tunic to remove the distinctive USMC cuff. This would:

1- further set the uniform apart from it being actual Dress Blues

2- allow the Screaming patch to be worn a little lower on the sleeve

And while I've got everyone attention- how hard would it be to remove the lower pockets? It would practically be a Marlow White honor guard jacket without them.

I used to remove lower pockets on BDUs all the time before I got a set of MAA's reproduction cammies. Taking the lower pockets off left no stitch lines, or loose threads done with some patience.

Of course, I appreciate a dress jacket is not a set of BDUs, and a big concern is: if the tunic is quite old, and the colour is faded (even slightly) removing the pocket will leave a noticably darker area of unfaded material.



To be honest- I'm not as excited as I was when I started this thread either. Mostly because of the stubborness I've seen in the last two days.

Most of us who wanted the uniform to be a certain way have made compromises. The issue about the berets was overcome, so was (my) issue with using USMC dress tunics.

But to brutally honest- Dom has adopted an "I'm going to do it this way and you can all either follow my lead... or not". He's not willing to roll on this issue.

I actually changed my opinion of the patches and where they go partly because the jacket does need to be set apart from the USMC, and because we all need to look the same, or it isn't a uniform.

And so I went with the configuration that Dom wants, because I am convinced that no matter what way the uniform ends up looking like (for instance an option other than number 1 is the majority)- Dom will be wearing his the way he wants.

I asked if he would compromise- and his response was to immediately put up his photoshop of the way he wants his uniform (and therefore everyone's) to look.



So yeah- I'm not too excited anymore. Once again, I am willing to compromise to keep the project moving forward.

EDIT- OR am I completely wrong about the issue with the USCM Eagle patch? Do most of us like it on the uniform and where it's going to be- or is it a case of "going with the flow"?

Just needed to get this off my chest.

Carry on.

_________________
I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

Sure.

Without seeing the inside of the sleeve I can't give a totaly exact tutorial yet but based on the way I imagine (and they appear) to be attatched I can certainly give a generic, 'off the cuff' step by step guide now.
(I'm sorry, I couldn't resist )

Basically it will involve...

1. Turn the sleeve inside out.

2. Unpick the lining from the cuff end of the sleeve.

3. Unpick the cuff hem. (both the hem and the lining will likely be pretty long stitches and they will only just catch the jacket fabric making them easy to cut.
- A minute or two work at most.

4. Unfold the hem.

5. Open the stictching of the seam just enough to allow removal of the decorative cuff.
- Again, maybe two minutes.

6. Stitch the seam opening closed by oversewing the existing stiching by about 1". You'll be able to follow the distinct line of the stitching on the inside of the sleeve.
If you have access to a sewing machine this step will take seconds. Otherwise if stitching by hand keep the stitches short (about the same length as the original machine stitching) and as straight as possible. The stitching needs to be tight in this step as it is holding the seam together.
- Perhaphs allow 5 minutes + for those not used to sewing.

7. Fold the hem over and resew by hand. You can keep the stitches fairly long and this will make it much quicker than the previous step.
The trick is to just catch the fabric and not push the needle all the way through so that the stitching doesn't show on the right side.
- 3 or 4 minutes.

8. Bring the lining back into place and restitch in the same way you did in the previous step.
Catch the lining just inside where it folds in on it's self and then catch the jacket fabric so that the stitches will be hidden under the lining.
Again, the stitches can be quite long as you only need to tack the lining into place. You don't have to be as carefull in this step as with the sleeve hem as provided you don't go through both layers of fabric the stitching will not show on the right side.
- 3 or 4 minutes.


That may sound like alot because I've broken it down into detailed steps but it's actually nowhere near as complicated as it may sound.

In fact, if you wanted to save even more time and effort you could omit the stitching in step 7 (and possibly and use "wonderweb" or some other iron-set fabric adhesive to re-hem the cuff.

Times are a tricky to gauge based on differeing skill levels so I've mad an educated guess. For a complete beginer to sewing it might take longer. But shouldn't be more than 20 minutes per sleeve at the far end of the scale.

Of course what is needed are photo's to illustrate what I'm talking about. I'll see what I can do tomorrow...

_________________
"The other Gareth"

If anyone is "going with the flow", I'll thank these folks very kindly to form an opinion and to express it. I've spoken with two other member here who seem pretty pleased with the mock-up that Devil Dog put together (configuration 1)... but if there's not more than three who like it and other have just given up and caved in... I'd rather keep this open to debate so that a larger majority of people will be satisfied with the end result.

Even if it costs me an arm & a leg, I will get this uniform as I strongly believe in it.

Ok, I'll have to say, assuming I have the cash I like the Marlow White jacket best, but then I like the clean lines. Of the MC dress blues that have been drawn out, I like TheDustRooms setup best with the USCM down the cuffs if they can't be taken off, or just removed if they can. But then like I said, I'm not to big on overly saturating the uniform with stuff. Understand why people feel we need the patches, but I do wish we could minimize it.

I will say that I also understand the "too many cooks" issue, but I kind of wish we had had a notice about the vote with a chance for people to submit their drawings for some of the text options that were being discussed.