Prepare to be the toilet rims true love! Completely gagging over her!

_________________
Sgt C. Kee-McParlin
A05/TQ1.0.02160E1

13th Regt. 1st Batt. 'Freebooters'

The English cannot drink as much as the Scots, simply because drinks are so expensive down here!

i'm interested in attending some events now my costume is complete so i've read this thread with interest and have a few queries/opinions i hope someone can answer.
I've been doing vietnam reenactment for nigh on 20 years and have done hundreds of public shows and events and one of the most important things we found we had to have is public liability insurance, however the 'ukcm' doesnt seem to have any?
i know you all go on about 'no rules' etc and anyone can join/turn up but you have an identity and you do corporate and public events, if something unfortunate did happen someone somewhere is gonna cop alot of flak!!
surely it would be more inteligent to have a members list and a small annual sub to pay for some insurance and possibly a membership card, that would cover you in the event of accident and up the professional image of the 'club'/ 'group' whatever you call it.
the other benefit of that kind of set up is it would cover you all under the vcr laws and you can buy or own rifs.
If someone turns up at your events and acts like an idiot and attacks or injures a member of the public do you think they will make a distinction when you say 'he only came along today, we dont know him' ?? no they wont, they will see a member of your group and will sue the a##e of off you all!!

next is costume, i understand when you say people dont need to wear it on events, having people in 'civvies' is no problem in my mind however, you do need some form of 'uniform standard'
i was talking about the ukcm to my friend in the nam group and he said he was at a con and you were there but his description was and i quote 'some of them were in DPM, they looked crap'
if you dont have a standard why should people bother? i could turn up with a cardboard box wrapped around me and a saucepan on my head and claim to be a 'colonial marine'!!!
some of the effort that goes into getting the kit right is superb, and as a punter i love seeing guys in the right gear looking the dogs dangly bits, but the public dont know the difference and if you wear 'real world' kit all they see are 'soldiers', but for the people like us who love the film the right look is all important.
if you turned up at one of our nam events in modern combats and wanted to be part of the display we would either loan you the right kit or just politely refuse, at which point we go back to 'membership' and no 'non members' representing the group at events.
expanded universe is cool with me however you have to set a limit, again it goes back to a uniform standard/approval.
now most of you anarchists will start having a dig at me about this and tell me to go to the garrison (i happen to agree with some of their ideas) however from what i've seen on here you all seem like a good bunch of guys and i would like to go to events and get into it with you, the problem is some of the 'dont give a damn for rules' attitude is iffy and if i am prepared to put the effort into it and wear the right kit i would hope the people around me would do the same thing, we have a saying in my group, 'you dont wear the kit for yourself, you wear it for others to see, and they wear it for you'
i hope this dont cause too much incoming to come my way, i am flexible and realise its your ball so you play the game your way, and if i want to participate i have to abide by the rules in place but i think opinions are like a. holes, we all have them.
let the abuse commence!!!!!

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Pt. Graham "gunny" Green
A07/TQ2.0.12129E1
UKCM 501st Regt. 1st Batt. The Bucketheads

Which particular "Don't give a damn for the rules" attitude are you talking about?

We operate the UKCM on the basis that Aliens costuming can be extremely expensive... And even if you have the money, sometimes accuracy is still not possible - When the likes of MAA were the only option for BDUs, for example.
You don't need a costume at all to be considered part of the UKCM - And we do distinguish between "casual" drops and "Proper" drops.

Take the recent and upcoming Sega and Collectormania events for example - Anyone wishing free entry to the event and / or use of our changing area is required to either wear a costume that falls within our accuracy parameters, or at the very least assist with fetching and carrying of prop displays etc.
Especially for Corporate events, those representing the group are chosen from those who we know and trust from previous events.

There are a few other things going on "Behind the scenes", but for now the setup is just fine.

And for the record, there have been people who have turned up with attempts at costumes that have prompted a response along the lines of "That's an OK try, but to make it better you need to do X, Y and Z. We'll hang out with you, but that's not quite up to scratch for the costume photos this time."

_________________
MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

BAN HIM, BAN HIM......quick where's the highest tree (only messing btw humor so hard to covey with the written word)

My thread so I'll jump in, good points but couple of draw backs lets go from the top down

In charge - paperwork (ie lots of it) at the best of times theirs a little bit, at the worst of times your called on it and and the t's have been dotted and I's have been crossed and things blow up

To efficiently manage a structure like that means a lot of time, sacrifice and keeping written records over a period of time (Grit/Spit/and a whole lot of duck tape) and making sure your directly responsible for your charges ouch

2IC (see what I did there with the military angle =p) will likely be seen as trumped up and keep people in line, instantly hated by all those wanting to goof off and have fun only to be told to calm down, we did it as kids we still do it now

Then we have your collectors, accurate sharp, or close too spent the time, effort, thoroughly enjoying access to the replica weaponry (UKARA) if in the uk a structured group can offer being a part of
And proud to fly the colours

Next level just as proud just as experienced but can not justify to the wife why a smart gun is a much more practice addition to the family than a little brother for little Susie, or insert Girlfriend/Boyfriend/Lesbian lover/ or that pet your far too attached too as applicable
Or simply that real metal spas cage for the pulse doesn't compete to x3 nights of drinking/false confidence and inevitable rejection (fun times)

Then the noobs, the bullet sponges, the just glad to be a part of something bigger than themselves, nobody likes to man the tuck shop or do crowd control and unfortunately to be passionate enough is simply expensive

Average cheapish armour -£300
Accurate camo - £200 ish
Jungle boots - £20
Grenades/strapping/pouches - £80
Pulse rifle - £100-£600 upwards
Shoulder lamp - £150 and up
Welder/Pentax lense/knife - £80 ish
Ab pad spat/DIY - £30

=£960 and up which is about average what I budget a build (but I'm insane)

I love both sides of the coin I love the laid back approach and I agree the structure ideas are valid too and I'm sure some of those titles and responsibilities are formally in effect

Problem you will always have though are numbers and commitment, be it money or time, it sucks but just seems that will be too tightly knit if it all cracks down on clearences etc and will be eventually x6 guys in the pub talking of the good old days of the ukcm down that route

At Least my view point

Well come next week i would have spent close to 2 grand on my gear and that does not include screen accurate BDUs yes i can afford it but some people cant so what do we say if they cant sorry your not welcome? I myself would not want to be part of a group that subscribes to that kind of bull and im glad the UKCM is not one of those groups. Do we goof off sure but when it comes to being serious and playing the part thats done to perfection to, i was welcomed with open arms and have made some great friends and had some fantastic times dont knock it till you have tried it

_________________
SSgt Kris "Bloodsucker" Kobus, VAS.
A09/TQ2.0.12136E1

This whole "Accuracy" discussion reminds me of an amusing incident at the NSC a few years ago...

One of the Hadrian's Wall crew - Who at the time couldn't afford MAA BDUs - decided to wear DPM with a set of borrowed armour, and also often wears a Glengarry hat. He also carried an Airsoft SA80.
He's Scottish. It looks decent, and fits his real-life persona.

One of the Garrison higher-ups ( At the time ) wandered past, gave him a withering, contemptuous once-over, and proclaimed:
"SA80? Not exactly screen-accurate, is it?"


Unfortunately for him, a certain Mr Steedman happened to be within earshot.
Good ol' Trev came over, looked down at this paragon of screen-accurate perfection - In his Weyland-Yutani labcoat, cargo shorts, and flip-flops - and pointed out:
"Actually, mate, there were racks full of SA80s on the Sulaco. You can see 'em if you watch the film."

And, having bitchslapped the gobby git into the outer rim territories... Sauntered off into the sunset to enjoy a well-earned smoke.

_________________
MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

Will my Jonsey require the SA fur colouring?
Only asking as he sure doesn't like it when I spray paint him.

_________________
AKA: Simon

Actually Munkey thats not quite true now is it there is one parade routine

_________________
SSgt Kris "Bloodsucker" Kobus, VAS.
A09/TQ2.0.12136E1

Are you referring to the DragonCon parade? Where we all stumble around in the street like hobbled circus monkeys, hung over and trying not get run over by the Batmobile, or throw up on Abe?

_________________
-Spat

From the new Sega/Gearbox game not one of them matches what was seen in the movie but all officially fox endorsed in what is a sequel to Aliens

_________________
SSgt Kris "Bloodsucker" Kobus, VAS.
A09/TQ2.0.12136E1

[quote="Mantroon"]Radion, no banning is going to happen, we are fans of open debate.

Then finish him with a Scottish drinking game to the death

The primary goal with the UKCM has been to mask the bureaucracy, minimise the hierarchy and (more than anything else) avoid elitism. I work hard to make sure that the group itself and the work that goes into it is as invisible as possible - so that it doesn't distract from meeting up, dressing up and getting merry. I'd go as far as saying that the UKCM isn't an organisation - it is a group of friends.

For years now, it's intrigued me is that some people see all this as a weakness...


The moment that the UKCM is more about "who has a good enough costume", "who filled out the PLI quote this year", "who liased with this event" , "who is subordinate to who" - and less about a group of friends having fun then I'll be out the door.

Posts like that need a like button =)

well that stirred up a hornets nest but sometimes a question or 2 need to be asked!
i have intended no insult to anyone, i am new to the 'costuming' world but as far as i can see it aint so different from historical reenactment (bunch of people running around in uniform).
i do have a couple of points though.
calling my friend a prick? he is military, he has been reenacting for many years and knows the difference in kit, and is a massive fan of the film and was disappointed to see a guy dressed in britsh army uniform and thought it was crap, that is no reason for you to insult him!!! he didnt say the guy was crap he said the look was crap!!
errrrrr i know who trevor steedman is.
i know sa80's were on the sulaco, so were m16's (why not just carry one of them? they are alot cheaper)
and yes there are camo variations in any army.
and no i dont want any army bullshit, in the nam group i am in we have a loose 'organisation' as it helps with organising things! same as you guys do, we dont have anyone ordering others around, we are a group of friends the same as you, but we do have a 'formal membership' and insurance because it covers our backsides!! (oh and we dont polish our boots, that is army bullshit)
you say you are a group of friends but use the word 'member' i was just interested in how you deal with the problems involved in living in a society where everyone is looking for an excuse to sue someone and where it is sensible to have insurance! (no i am not an insurance salesman)
and i said i am cool on the idea of expanded universe.
and apart from trying to insult my inteligence i can see the points you put across, shame you cant see mine!!
well i guess i better go and hide under my rock again for the next salvo!!!!

_________________
Pt. Graham "gunny" Green
A07/TQ2.0.12129E1
UKCM 501st Regt. 1st Batt. The Bucketheads

The bottom line is - WE ARE NOT A REENACTMENT GROUP! If anything, we're not really a costuming group.

Every few months, a newb pops up on AL with the exactly the same ideas about how the UKCM should be, without even meeting us or seeing what we actually do. And every few months, we steadfastly and stubbornly refuse to change. Sometimes the new people realise what the UKCM actually is, and meet up and become a regular. Sometimes we never hear from them again...

You will not change the UKCM from the outside. From that point of view, this discussion is pointless. You could always come along to events, see what we do and then make suggestions from an informed position...

The UKCM is basically the same as any paying member of the public.
The only difference is that we're dressed up and don't pay to get in. We still have to pay our own hotels, travel, food and all that. We usually get a secure changing room/area.
We have carry rules that we ourselves enforce, which are really just common sense written down. We ask you to abide by them and if you refuse, we disown you and call event security.

There is no membership fee or anything, there is no AGM, secretary, treasurer or anything like that. We don't charge for our attendance at events, although if asked, we request the show organisers donate money to our chosen charity. We are not an official incorporated, chartered organisation or anything. We are literally a bunch of friends who hang out together. That's as far as our 'identity' actually goes.

Not even the most 'officialy professional' costume groups are exempted from the VCRA, which is a grey area law anyway. We get away with it because we're sensible about things and have a reputation of being good boys and girls.


Uniform standard?
OK, then I don't want to see you unless your 'uniform' is 100% EXACTLY like the very same Aliens character you are portraying. That goes for your own height, length of stubble, accent, voice timbre and your gait.
If you can't afford platic surgery, then you're out of the group....

Sound fair?
No, I didn't think so.
Again, this is not re-enactment - Don't apply the same values and stop comparing us to that. I am a re-enactor in one of the oldest UK organisations, with some of the highest standards around. NONE of that applies to costuming.

Heck, you *do* have some people at these shows dressed in painted cardboard boxes, pretending to be Transformers. It's NOT about how accurate you are or how much money you have to spend on a fictional movie costume. If it's all about teh effort you spend, which in many cases translates to how much money money, then this is not the hobby for you. No-one cares how rich you are here, which is the whole point. It's about dressing up and having fun.

This is a bunch of adult geeks playing dress-up at public shows. Think of it as a massive fancy dress party.


>expanded universe is cool with me however you have to set a limit
So set YOURSELF a limit and keep it to yourself. We can't exclude wonderful people from being part of our friendship just because they cannot afford to spend as much money as someone else. That's not how we work. It's like saying you can't post on the forum until you've seen Aliens 26 times. It's absurd!


>'you dont wear the kit for yourself, you wear it for others to see, and they wear it for you'
For costuming, that's arse-about-face.
Costuming you *are* wearing it for yourself and no-one else. You do this because YOU want to have fun, so you do what makes YOU happy and let others find their own. Many costumers costume alone and pay to get into events alone. They do it just for themselves - We do it because we look cool together and enjoy each others company, both during the event and outside of it.


>as far as i can see it aint so different from historical reenactment
As far as anything from WW2 onwards goes, the majority of Re-enactors are uppity, stitch-counting, elitist pricks who think acting out their favourite 'Nam movie scenes makes them real soldiers, or having watched Saving Private Ryan makes them an authority on everything WW2.

Trust me, I *am* both a Living Historian and re-enactor, as well as being ex-Forces myself (as are several members of this forum). Having met most of the main re-enactment groups, I say this with complete conviction. It's rarer to find someone who does it properly and most of those are full Living History groups anyway.

Costuming is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like either of the above. NO costuming group is that structured, regulated, organised, picky and fussy, not even the wonderful Garrison.


Member... Fnar fnar
OK - You are also a Member of this forum. You are a Member of the public. You are a Member of a family. How much money did you have to pay to join any of those? What are the written rules, laws, acts and regulations that govern your membership of them? What are your uniform regulations for each of them?
Point taken?


We are not insulting your intelligence at all. We are pointing out that what we do *does* work and works very well, but you have no actual knowledge of what we do or how it works, yet. You need to come to an event or two and find out first.
Would you try and manage a road excavation on a sewer repair without first finding out how it's usually done? I hope not.
Same for this - Come see what we do and how we work it first, THEN start picking holes if you like, upon which the discussion will be far more productive and meaningful.

TOODLES

_________________
SSgt Kris "Bloodsucker" Kobus, VAS.
A09/TQ2.0.12136E1

you miss my point entirely, i am asking questions, i have no interest in changing what you do and how you do it, its your organisation! Also i am not 'picking holes'!! i know nothing about the costuming world, i have gone the route of war gaming, live action role playing and reenactment, now i am interested in doing the costume thing and as such the only way to learn is to ask questions which i am doing and i dont understand your taking such umbrage with that?
I have not written anything insulting about anyone, and yet one of you thinks its ok to insult one of my friends who he has never met? there is no justification in that!
and as for 'screen accurate' who insisted or mentioned that? i am 49, far too old to be a grunt! i dont look like any of the actors and my kit was not made by terry english! i think the polish looks good, even marpat or brit desert looks good but sorry DPM looks like DPM!!!!
you are right about one thing, this is indeed a pointless discussion cos if all you are going to do is shout and holler in righteous indignation when someone asks you a few valid questions then there is no point in asking them!!

_________________
Pt. Graham "gunny" Green
A07/TQ2.0.12129E1
UKCM 501st Regt. 1st Batt. The Bucketheads

>the only way to learn is to ask questions
In this case, it's better and easier to just come and see it.
You know how in movies where the guy always says, "Captain... I really think you should come and see this"? Well it's kinda like that, except you can't actually just say 'it's a dead body' over the radio or anything...

>yet one of you thinks its ok to insult one of my friends who he has never met?
Is this the same friend who insulted our member's efforts by saying he looked crap, without having met him or known either his circumstances or reason for wearing DPM, then?
But the rebuttals come from the context - Your postings have been fairly negative in suggetion and tone (possibly just due to communicating on the internet) and critical of what we do, suggesting we fall far beneath an expected standard, when such standards don't exist unless the group themselves choose to enforce one.

>shout and holler in righteous indignation when someone asks you a few valid questions
Long as they listen when we answer, we wouldn't have to shout and holler.
The main point is that the questions are about factors and matters that don't apply to costuming, either with our group or with almost all the other groups out there.
We're about as much of an official, governed, enforced, regulated association as the Grazeley Chruch Hall Knitting Club!!


>but sorry DPM looks like DPM!!!!
Yeah, but have you *seen* that bright yellow BananaCam in the CM Tech Manual??!!
I'd take DPM over that any day!!

Again, I urge you to just come along to an event and actually see what we mean, rather than guessing and assuming first - All will become clear and it'll be great fun!

One of the biggest obstacles a group like the USCM (and off shoots- UKCM/UACM etc) faces is that because the uniforms, gear and weapons are so close to a modern fighting force is that we are expected to act like a modern military force.

I can't remember how many times someone has chimed in with a "terrific new idea" that we should try and emulate real Marines/Soldiers/Armies ad nauseam.

One funny incident is when one of our now senior members tried to get the group to walk in a "diamond slot" formation for the annual Dragon Con parade many years ago. Of course getting a bunch of civilians to actually walk in "any" kind of formation for more than ten feet is nearly impossible... It would be easier hearding cats.

(Having mentioned that- we have made a pretty good effort in the last 4 years to have a "Flag party" at the parade leading the group, and marching in step.)


I myself have been guilty of trying to get the group to adhere to a higher standard a few years back. Caused a pretty big rift on the board. It happens.

The bottom line is that we are not a military force nor are we re-enacting one; the USCM doesn't exist. Frankly what is seen in the film is a bunch of undisciplined blokes who thumb their noses at authority, but are still a closely knit group who know each other like the back of their hands (which is why they have a great deal of confidence in their ability to perform their job).

This is the appeal of the movie and what our costuming group has become- a close knit group of friends. We welcome new comers with open arms, but please don't come in and say "we're doing it wrong" (in the guise of "you could be so much better if...")- it is insulting at best.



You're absolutely right. If some guy came in here with say some hockey padding on his chest and baseball shin pads painted to look like armour we should kindly ask him to leave until he gets the right kit.

Oh shit that's me.


To be serious I too have said things like "you can't just slap some USCM patches on any old camouflage BDUs and call yourself a Colonial Marine." And "to a degree" I still stand by that...

However having said that, the "degree" depends greatly on how much disposable income one member might have (or more to the point- might "not" have).

It also boils down to whether someone truly wants to stay with this group, or is just passing through. If someone is here to stay because they love the film Aliens, but can't afford the right kit, they are most welcome. It doesn't matter if they get something together with the hopes of upgrading eventually (*raises hand), or "never" manages to change their kit because they simply cannot afford it- they are still welcome. It is really whether your "heart" is in the right place or not.

What bothers me most is say someone who either doesn't care at all (they can't be bothered upgrading because the USCM is their flavour of the month), or thinks we should strive for a higher standard when they haven't even gotten to know how this place works yet. Worst is someone who mocks us by saying someone's kit is junk.

I've been here over ten years, and I've seen the changes this place has gone through. The point of this board, this group is a gathering of like minded individuals who love the ALIEN series of films. Some of us costume, some don't. Some costumers get by with what they can, and some have Terry English armour.

Above all we are here because of our love of the franchise (even though they ruined it with the AvP films ).


My advice is for you Gunny to stay and get to know how we get on. You might like what you see.


Kevin

_________________
I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

I think Woody and Kev are bang on.

And yes - The reason your mate got insulted is because, well, he started it!
You keep mentioning that DPM looks crap, as your mate so politely put it when he told you about us - But if the Colonial Marines were going someplace that DPM would work well as camo, they would wear DPM!
And those who wear DPM do tend to also adopt other aspects of the British/Scottish loadout of the day.

So nobody's insulting your intelligence, nobody's insulting YOU.
But if your mate is going to insult the UKCM and its members, then you can't really blame them for responding in kind.

_________________
MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

Thank you for some less confrontational comments and for my part i concede that jumping in with the crap comment was a touch tactless. In my defence i was trying to use it as an example of a informed punters point of view. I apologise for that. as for any other comments i aint gonna make anymore. Writing is often misinterpreted and i would rather voice an opinion than write it

_________________
Pt. Graham "gunny" Green
A07/TQ2.0.12129E1
UKCM 501st Regt. 1st Batt. The Bucketheads

Which brings us back to come to a drop see how you like it

_________________
SSgt Kris "Bloodsucker" Kobus, VAS.
A09/TQ2.0.12136E1

DINGDING!

_________________
MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop