"One in which the measurement for A is 10.5 inches,"

I just reply to email containing this chart -- 10.5" A measurement says your chest circumference is 21 inches. For men sizes, US Small would be 36 inches. So may be you should remeasure, unless you are a child or adolescent.

_________________

This is turning out to be a great thread for peeps who wanna get informed on ordering BDUs ..

- 10.5 inches for measurement A turned out to be erroneous. The collector needed 23 inches. BTW -- your sleeve length steted at 22 inches .. your inseam at 34 inches .. doesn't look right.

- Anyone who needs their order by a certain time needs to be informed that the average turnaround is 3~4 weeks. Then the orders, if by registered air, is picked up personally then carried out from China to Hong Kong for the better postage rate. Airmail, by any national carrier in the world, IS NOT GUARANTEE for timeline arrival. For that, anyone who is pushed for time, will need consider upgrading to EMS.

@ joeranger, yeah I saw the chest burster on your Size Chart, cute .. it won't be sewn in to your shirt. LOL! Your order has to be remade. Attached is the Chart I made on memory. Have a look at it and comment on any changes you wish to make.

_________________

@Darkwingwalker -- there's good & bad news.

Start with the bad -- due to your twice prompting and mentioning of timeline for personal event, your Size Chart was submitted in a batch already this 10AM my time (it is now 4:34PM locally). Once the Size Chart is received by our tailor, her son hard prints them and she takes them as Work Orders. So in effect your work order is already cut as per your last email. Having said that it was caught by my eye and my recall you mentioning that you were a "tall" person. I see that in your inseam of 34". Hence, your sleeve length reported as 22" -- does not make sense. Instead of just locking you in -- I advise you to remeasure. The bad news is -- your chart has to be edited via a phone call by me, unless you want your sleeves to be 22 inches exactly. And as SOP, any re-diting via hand, call-ins, what not, that alters original Size Chart reported as final -- stands to void out guarantee for fit. This means your shirt order should the 22 inches you've specked upon receving turns out to be too short -- we do not guarantee that fit for you, becuz we had been instructed by you as per your intention (with emphasis to hurry up and get the order started as per above post testfies to). While we wil continue to work with you so you can have a fittting BDU, any costs associated with re-shipping, labor & materials are now not bore by us as per our SOP (please refer to appropriate thread on BDU orders to be found on Scifimilitary.com).

Now the good news -- so long as you take your time again, as best I can advise you to do, find the point where your arm pivots as the center and starting point of the tape, then take the tape down and read where your wrist pivots in a straight line, that's your sleeve length. For a man your height, I would expect this to read approximately 25 inches plus/minus. You can double check to see if it still reads 22". Who knows, may be you have long legs and short arms -- that's not out of the realm of all possible human physiques. It is still ample time for me to call in a correction(within the next 24 hours or so before the tailor starts making her fabric cuts for your job). Thus, as long as you take advantage of this time window and do finally confirm what is your actual size need/speck AFA the sleeve length is concerned(Measurement C.) -- you still have a shot at correcting this before it is too late.

Please don't forget, and I am posting for all to read & comprehend, we were in this very circumstance one plus year ago with a collector who had his sleeve length measured by a professional seamstress who took it from the nape to the sleeve end incorrectly and wound up with a Yao Ming size sleeve length of 36 inches by our standards, which was then called in by me as 24.5 inches and due to noise in the tube from which I made my call to the tailor after receiving his corrected measurement by email to our old lad talior, she writes down 22.5 on her hard copy Work Order ==> leading to our current SOP which we must stick to. The point is -- we do not alter Size Charts/Work Orders once they've been hard printed by the tailor -- any changes from there voids our liability to guarantee fit. Period.

Please get any corrections to me by PM, email, or even reply here in the thread to once and for all, determine what your actual sleeve length is.

PS -- you can PM two other tall men that I know here on AL, them being Russ Krook III and Matsuo, who are 6 foot 5 and 6 foot 3, to see what their sleeve length are. Off the top they are in the 25 inch plus range.

_________________

I just had the wife take the tape to my arm and she came up with 23.5 which sounds right for me. Now from a boxing stand point I have a fairly long reach and wide wingspan of roughly 81" spreading my arms and measuring from index finger, but I'm but all of 5'9" tall. So I have long arms for someone of my height, and a longer upper body versus the lower. I'd be 6 feet tall if I had matching lengths therein. So I'm out lengthing your reported sleeve length by 1.5 inches. More than likely, your 22" is insufficient to belabor a made point already.

_________________

Yeah, Remeasured it as 25. Not entirely sure what happened there.

_________________
Sgt. Jake Tucker - 13th Regt. 1st Batt. Freebooters.

Ok. I will call in and have the tailor re-mark your specified 22 inches to 25 inches.

However, as said we are sticking to our SOP. To reiiterate, we were in this position 1+ year ago when we did someone a favor to remark their Size Chart when the errors were generated by the collector. At the time, we did not write up any standard procedures to follow when human error enter into the equation -- as a consequence we were on the line to absorb the full cost of having a shorted sleeved shirt sent back by the collector, who turned in an error full Size Chart which was listed and un-filled in despite being "professionally measured by seamstress", that had to be corrected by me multiple times as in this case -- AND HE WASHED HIS HANDS OF IT ALL. We had pay for the return of the shirt England-HK, hand carry the shirt HK-China to the tailor, detach the sleeves, re-fabricate & re-attach the sleeves, then hand carry the replacement China-HK, and re-ship to England. That was the episode which burnt this bridge forever. From then on until now -- we will only absorb that kind of costs when the human error originates from us.

In sum I went to length to explain all the behind-the-scene workings in the process of getting BDUs ordered in this thread in the main forum of AL so it can be searched on for future reference purposes. Please be aware there are standards existing, and those standards developed over time through hundreds of orders and are necessary to ensure smooth working.

It is quite easy to get the measurements correctly. It is just as easy to get them wrong as this case illustrates. So, please use care and invest your time in getting it right, becuz once the input specks are wrong, the outputed order in terms of the actual BDU will be only as good as the input that went into it. Remember that a Size Chart must be independently filled in by the collector. If we wind up marking it up, e.g. filling in the blanks from a list or editing it after it had been received, that will void out our full guarantee for fit. That kind of guarantee only applies when we error in fabricating the BDUs that deviates from the Size Chart. The Size Chart is the Work Order, and BDUs are cut & sewn to it exactly.

The Size Chart is shown in this thread in a previous post. These are available when inquired, as I usually email them out. The Size Chart is quite simple to understand, and graphically explains every measurement necessary. Having a professional seamstress/tailor take your measurements DOES NOT guarantee accurate results as experienced from past cases. Pro tailors are habitual and go by their own standards for several measurements that differs from the Size Chart. They also are accustomed to tailoring suits and fitted shirts rathen than BDUs. They also are likely to have never handlded & measured out a BDU.

It is sufficient to measure yourself by yourself without having another person working with you. Simply find some loose fitting clothes, if military fatigues aren't in your wardrobe. Make sure your clothes (those you might wear to work around the yard or go camping or fishing) are laid flat on the floor -- then take a tape and follow the Size Chart. If you like your BDUs to tuck in at the waist, please make sure you measure out a set of clothing that is doing just that. If your fitted business shirt barely tucks into your jeans -- it's an indication that you are using the wrong personal reference from your wardrobe AND it's gonna cause short comings if you use numbers as such for your BDU order.

Size Charts are measured in imperial inches. But please DO NOT type "inches' next to the numeral measurement. Typing anything extra other than perhaps your screen name or personal name will cause us to edit your Size Chart and voiding your guarantee for fit.

The typical mistakes are people give their chest (measurement A) and waist (measurement E) in full circumference rather than as graphically illustrated on the Size Chart in half/flat measurements on clothes rather than the person. People also tend to error on sleeve length (measurement C) and shirt length (measurement D). Please pay extra attention when it comes to measuring these specks.

_________________

We've just received this Size Chart, so I will use it for class room material.

This is a very well thought out, detailed, measured Size Chart.

BUT -- we've asked the collector to re-do for the following reasons:

1. The unit measurement "inches" is NOT needed.
2. The measurements given in centimeter is NOT needed AND erroneous for our purposes.
3. The unit measurements down to the precise is NOT needed; we only work in half inch
and full inch on any measurement. Therefore, either rounding up to the next half inch or
the next full inch would be necessary. We will not cut BDUs to say 20.13 inches, or 33.78 inches.
You're either 20.50 or 34 in these cases (we always go upwards and not round downwards
as clothing it is much better to be larger than smaller.

Please keep in mind -- what we are filtering is the simplest data to be passed to the
tailor as Work Order to be cut precise (we account for shrinkage in addition to
actual measurement we receive on Size Chart).

We keep it simple, and therefore it is not better to have more information, as that
only serves to confuse the simple minds at the fabrication level.

_________________

Post removed.

_________________
Sgt. Jake Tucker - 13th Regt. 1st Batt. Freebooters.

Remember the following frequent carnal sins on the Size Chart step of BDU ordering:

0. Reporting measurements in a list, and not graphically and numerically on the
Size Chart.

1. Reporting measurements A. & E. (chest & waist) in full measurements instead of
measuring flat across as indicated graphically on Size Chart.

2. Mis-measuring sleeve length from the center of the nape, instead of top of the arm
hole down to the sleeve end as indicated graphically on Size Chart.

3. Shorting the Sleeve Length C. or Shirt Length D. Your guess is as good as mine on this
one as to why -- but some people consistently get these wrong and usually short.

4. Getting a larger B. measurement than A., making a hunch back requirement. The back
width is usually several inches narrower than half chest.

5. Too high rise OR too low -- the difference between measurement G. pant length and
measurement F. inseam is typically 10 inches. Most people who get these wrong will usually
specify low rise (around 8 inches) or high rise (around 12 inches or more).
If your difference is 10 -- you're 90% good to go (some people have special needs
here).

=================================================================
Any of the above errors will cause a halt in the WIP process of the BDUs..
Typically, I need to contact the collector and ask for a re-do, or I will edit
the Size Chart, possibly due to rush pressure placed by collector to save time.
But once the original Size Chart as attached by email has been received and
confirmed as final -- any editing voids our guarantee in terms of any subsequent
shipping cost, materials, labor to rectify any problems resulting, especially --
when the Size Chart had been redirected to the tailor and hard printed to
become the Work Order.

These SOPs are put into place to protect our liability, as we can NOT guarantee outcome,
when the input is erroneous, based on past cases experienced.
==================================================================

6. Over specifying widths and lengths when not needed.
Some folks want to wear really loose BDUs. But once you start hitting sizes
larger than 2XL/XXL half chest of 25 inches -- it is SOP to add an surcharge
for additional materials. A 2XL BDU runs about 5 yards of fabric, and that is
the maximum our standard offering reflecting in the BDU set prices. Typical
3XL surcharge will be USD15 additionally per shirt/pants and goes up accordingly.

7. Forgetting to order patches/name tapes (or assuming that BDU orders
come with). In 2008 when the Pre-order for 3PATs came on, we offered
patches/name tape for the tunic sewn inclusive as a special inducement.
Once the Pre-order was over, all BDU orders are "sterile" or W/O patches.
Ordering patches/tapes sewn on cost USD25. Ordering separately cost
USD45 (comes with several more patches).

Hope this helps~!

_________________

Please remember also the nature of the problem of placing on-line order for custom-made clothing: We don't know what your needs are and you must convey that in a standardized way -- i.e. the Size Chart. Since the need for standards is inflexible -- our requirements are inflexible. Any deviation from the standard leads to errors. Period.

Since the Size Chart also becomes the W.O. -- there is typically not to be any editing. Once editing is required, the SOP calls for null & void of guarantee for fit to included re-shipping costs, labor, materials. We were once put in a position of not having self-protection when all kinds of errors were thrown at us for the longest time W/O much ado -- then someone made a claim on us, closing this loophole to shift wrongful liability on us forever.

ALSO, the point is NOT whether it is a hassle to use Paint/Photoshop or equivalent to put in your numerals. Or whether it is a hassle to print, write cleanly, then scan your Size Chart, OR to record a list of measurements onto the Size Chart -- we have done this low level secretarial/clerk work without complain in the past -- BUT we can NOT do free secretarial work then be on the line to absorb full costs when the input errors caused misfit problems.

This places the responsibility of the input side on the collector as it should be logically. We don't mind to edit your Size Chart. However, all bets are off when we do it for you. Hence, it is your call on whether you want to spend the time to get the Size Chart right by measuring right and reporting according to the standard, or whether you want to leave that hassle to us. It is, however, never an option to disregard the SOP's we developed to keep the process of fabrication running smoothly. When you ASS-U-ME that .. (you know the joke).

Finally, we are happy to report -- ever since the Size Chart requirements became stringent -- the number of collectors reporting misfit problems has dropped significantly. The last tally has this ratio at less than 2 percent. Of the misfit cases reported -- the core of the problem has been 100% on the input side, and had nothing to do with our fabrication (1 case -- shorted shirt length, another case collector added 2 inches to the waist + all dimensions on the pants to preempt eliminate shrinkage then we added out shrinkage factor leading to too roomy pants which the collector solved locally. These 2 cases are the only ones in the past 12 month period).

Hope this is clear to be understood. Cheers~!

_________________

Reverend, this is a great quote to be used for class room material which goes along with your advice in that I am quoting you to give advice to others who wish to get this process right when ordering up BDUs as you intended.

1. Use of seamstress -- our official position is this is unnecessary. In fact, if you choose to use one, you have got to make sure the seamstress understands what you need to be measured for -- that is NOT a business suit, NOT a dress shirt. If you look at a dress shirt e.g. taper ones (I think they are called slim or custom fit), it does not look like a fatigue shirt. And may go to explain why you've experienced shirt tails falling out of tuck and tightness in the chest.

2. When measuring -- as said from the very beginning when we switched from 2PAT to 3PAT and started custom fitting every order to the collector instead of pre-set standard sizes which people were complaining were usually too roomy, it is sufficient to measure by yourself by taking a tape to loose fitting work/camping clothes if military fatigues aren't available.

From the above, advisory 1. is pretty new to be found in this thread, but your case plus the the very same case from an year ago which caused us to tighten up the procedures both involved collectors employing seamstresses to provide the base measurements. But advisory 2. has been around since 2008 when we started the 3PAT, and it was given to everyone coming into the process since.

So, it's all about the input. Yes, you followed the Size Chart. But your inputs were askew due to the reasons discussed above which yield the outcome. Thus, the best advice is simply to follow the basic instructions laid out in this thread thus far.

Hope this helps~!

_________________

One correction to your assertion there, mate:

.

I had a seamstress check my measurements - to ensure that they were correct within the specifications on the sizing chart.

Simply, following your measurement recommendations, the shirt is too short to tuck in well whereas the 2Pat shirts are plenty long enough.

For the record, MAA is now offering a rebate of 50% upon receipt of mis-sized goods when the reason for the mis-sizing is the customer's.
Which is pretty generous in cases where the fault is that of the buyer.
So thanks for that, mate.

( I still recommend adding a few extra inches to the tail of his shirts... Worst case scenario is you cut off the excess, right? )

_________________
MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

Unless you've got an abnormally short body like me, in which case the shirt/jacket is plenty long enough to tuck in.

_________________
Steve
Corporal in 69th Regt. 1st Batt. Homer’s Heroes.

"I'd like to die at the age of 80 in my own bed, with a belly full of wine and a girl's mouth around my c**k."

Thanks Reverend for clarifying that.

As mentioned already -- we don't recommend adding an seamstress into the mix. Here's the reason why -- in the UK as far as I know, the tailor trade is a traditional trade with apprenticeship as with so many traditional trades. You might imagine as I have, that tradition must be full of habitual standards that have been passed down from master-to-apprentice. It is not hard to imagine -- if a seamstress takes the back length reading from your nape to your L5 lumbar and say that reads 27 inches exactly, as if now you go to look at a diagram showing where your L5 is you will discover that is roughly where most back rise tops off at on trousers (hence it wouldn't tuck) -- she would record that in a list as you first passed to me. However, when she goes to cut your shirt, it might be entirely possible that she's not just cutting your shirt length to 27 inches as that would yield you a shirt that runs from your nape down to your L5 exactly, but rather she intrinsically know to add 3~4 inches to the length that she is cutting to form the back of your dress shirt for that tail part which then tucks into your trousers.

Since the civilized world came about, as you can imagine, people have had need to fabricate garments all over the globe. But the habits, standards, and traditions of England or Scotland can not be expected to be practiced in other parts of the world. Hence, a tailor in South China (not Colonial Hong Kong) will not follow the ways & means of tailors in the UK, because the tailors over here would have had developed their habits, standards, and traditions completely separate from influences from other cultures (it might be mentioned that these traditions started easily thousand years earlier).

Now, while we developed the Size Chart as it was captured from an eBay clothing seller then modified, and we provided the Size Chart as a way to capture your sizing needs, we have no part in the actual measuring by logic, as there is no opportunity for us to part take in that being that you're over there and we're over here.

Thus, if the seamstress you entrusted specified to you that your nape to L5 is 27 inches, and perhaps and this is just a guess, she might have expected that a counterpart would know what that meant. This might go to explain the shorted outcome.

However, by graphic example of measurement D. on our Size Chart -- as the coinage a picture tells a thousand words, if your seamstress meant 27 inches as depicted by our Size Chart is in fact what your actual sizing need for what we call "shirt length", then by logic ==> it is impossible for you to find your shirt length on your 3PAT BDUs too short to tuck in. But the fact is you have experienced that your BDU shirt is too short to be tucked in. Therefore, the only conclusion can be by logic that your sizing need for shirt length (our measurement D.) is greater than 27 inches. Yet the Size Chart you sent us reads for measurement D. ==> 27. I even PM you once to confirm this before shipping off your order. And the person who tape measured you and told you your measurement D. was 27 is who ?

Perhaps you will agree as to why we now recommend to all -- it is suffice to measure your needs from a loose fitting set of clothes if military fatigues aren't available. We do NOT recommend using a seamstress to tape measure you. If you decide to do so, please be aware from our experience that more than likely the measurements will not come out correctly for the reasons already discussed above.

Also, I should mention because we knew you were a moderator on the AL and you were kind enough to bring along your mate for a double order ==> we triple checked your two BDUs order against your Size Chart provided. I went a step further and instructed our tailor, IF she discovers even one measurement were NOT exactly as you specified via the Size Chart on record, that she was to re-fabricate your orders, and provide me with the replacements within 48 hours (as you'll recall -- we expedited your two BDUs for you direct out of China).

So, in the final analysis of your order, I regret that your experience was not a perfect 100 points outcome. But there is simply not a better way that we could have advise you besides flying to the UK and walk you through the process. We can do that but I would have to charge USD 30,000 as does Italian suit makers Kiton does for a set of BDUs, as I do not fly anything but First Class, and I must have minimum a Bently limo to pick me up at Heathrow and take me all the way to Scotland.

And for future reference, we can work with you even if we were not at fault for misfit issues, and we will provide you a way to get replacements at substantial savings.

Hope that helps~!

_________________

Just a bit more on my speculation of UK seamstress/tailors -- some might be familiar with what's called a "waistcoat" .. in modern terms that's a vest, but as in the old 3 piece suit inner vests. Ok ? You follow ??

Here's why I speculate why an UK tailor by habit will take the reading of gentlemen from nape to approximately the L5 lumbar vertebrae position. Back in the old days, but in the early development of the modern business suit which you will find around the turn of last century, when the tailoring trade must have exploded as demands for the forerunner of the business suit came about. Anyone needing a suit, would need also a waistcoat, besides the shirt of course to put a tie around. Well, I'm willing to bet -- that's why they would simply measure from the nape or base of the neck down to the L5, because this is basically your torso length as measured from the backside. And by taking this length -- this information is ample to generate cuttings for all 3 garments -- suit, waistcoat, shirt. This is also the precise reason that they -- the traditional western tailor would measure sleeve length from the nape to your wrist bone, because it was more accurate. Hence, standard measurements for traditional tailors are not the same as those we require.

I don't believe that Reverend's seamstress truly understood which measurements we required as graphically on the Size Chart; I believe she simply went with her habits.

Anyhow -- if you ask me, there's your reason there.

_________________

Like I said... All she did was check that I had the measurement correct as per your size chart.

_________________
MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

And like I said -- we have not given anyone any direction that involves going to a seamstress. I can understand the thinking behind going to a seamstress, much like I can understand someone giving measurements in both inches and centimeters. Sometimes going overboard with as much info. as possible helps. In this case too much info. serves to confuse. Sometimes going to a professional seemingly helps. But if that professional signed off on the Size Chart she didn't fully understand, e.g. putting her pro. rep. on the line and told you "27" is correct for you. Had she been right, there is 0% chance your shirt won't tuck in, as your Size Chart indicated 27 inches as the shirt length you require. Similarly, for your mate his Size Chart indicated an measurement A. which as I understand is too tight for his sizing requirement. Yet by what you've told me -- the Size Charts we receive were done as per our instruction. I assure you -- we gave no instructions to you which would have lead you the above results.

Having never seen you in person, but having received the Size Chart from you, our Work Order is cut to what you provide. That work was checked thoroughly at the fabrication level then twice by me with a tape measure before sending off.

Hence, our Size Chart, our ordering process, our advise on taking measurements and the misfit issue you have experienced are independent of one another. For what caused the discrepancy between your actual sizing need as you mentioned in shirt length and chest, IMHO it has almost 100% certain relevance to do with you entrusting your completed Size Chart to a seamstress. Obviously, we do not know who she is, and have never worked with her, so we certainly did not sanction her to check/verify the Size Chart.

Finally, the Size Chart is the way we have devised to capture the sizing requirements for people in remote location to us. If the discussion is whether it is effective and promotes accurate measurements along with the beefed up policy that is in place, the answer is -- it is for nearly 99% of the people who have been involved in the process. That's the empirical evidence based on the feedback data we have received.

_________________

One mo' time:

I showed the seamstress the chart, and all our correspondence.
I showed her my measurements.
I asked her to check that I had measured correctly, as per the chart and instructions.
She confirmed I had, indeed, read the chart correctly and transferred the measurements correctly from my workshirt to the chart as advised by you.

_________________
MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

Right. And the shirt length being 27 inches .. too short for you. This much we know.

Rev, as with all our comm's on this one -- it seems you and I can be talking about the same
facts. Just that some how, your interpretation of them is different from mine, or the
emphasis on the facts are completely not in synch.

Our advise -- measure loose fitting work clothes, if military fatigues aren't available.

If I remember correctly, Rev -- you're also an Airsofter. For your skirmishes do you
wear fatigues that aren't 3pats .. and does such a fatigue shirt for you tuck in or
at least over hang the front/back rise of your fatigue trousers ?

And if you own such a fatigue shirt, is the shirt length from nape down to the
hem by tape measure 27 inches ?

By logic it can not be so.

If you stacked your current 3pats which we made for you on top of a fatigue
shirt which I speculate you wear for Airsoft, by logic if the fatigue shirt tucks in
on trousers and your 3pat does not -- the fatigue shirt which you might wear for
Airsoft must be longer than 27 inches. The same would apply on a work shirt which
tucks in for you that you wear for miscellaneous activities.

The bottom line on this then is -- do you own military fatigue sets that are right
for you, of which the shirt will not come out of tuck in seconds after walking around ?
If so -- was it used to take your measurement off from ? If not so, had you used the
military fatigues which you might own to measure for your 3pat order Size Chart,
would your measurement D. shirt length still have read 27 inches ? That I leave for your ponder.

I wanna say, you did right by collectors in wanting to share your experience, and advising them
to get their measurements right when entering this process. I aim to do the same.
However, Rev, you have replied in this thread for collectors to be advised --
add "an inch or two" to measurement D., shirt length, and measurement A.,
pit-2-pit (1/2 chest).



and you have twice stated in this thread as above that the number
"27" which you entered for your measurement D. on your Size Chart,
as well as your mate's measurement A., the two areas where you have experienced
misfit, resulted by following of my Size Chart and my measurements exactly,
as that number and all other numbers had been measured and recorded by you and your mate,
then verified by your consultant, then sent on to me.

Firstly, to reset everyone's mind from being askew -- Size Charts are blanks. Each chart does
not contain any length or width. They are to be measured and filled in. So there aren't any
MAA's length to be found on the Size Chart to be added to. Each of the measurements
A (pit-to-pit/half chest), B (shoulder width), C (sleeve length), D (shirt length), E (1/2 waist), F (inseam),
G (outseam) on the BDU Cut Size Chart certainly aren't my intellectual property, do not belong to me,
and are not exclusively used by me. So, they are in fact NOT my measurements, but rather typical
measurements to be found on garments. In this case -- long sleeve shirt, long pants.

Secondly, I have a problem with those statements, and wish to point out
the muddled facts in those statements as follows: The way your statements reads,
IMHO, they can easily mislead others reading this thread into believing that I gave you
"exact advise" which lead you to receiving misfitting BDUs in terms shirt length for you,
and chest for your mate. You are also confusing advisory on how to capture your
data with the choice of sample to capture your data from; this fact which I have
observed serves as the culprit to your misunderstanding herein.

The fact is I did not advise you to measure a set of clothing
per our Size Chart which lead to you entering "27" for your measurement D.
In fact, my advise is neutral in influence of any number you may have come up
with ultimately. That is beyond my control 100%.

My exact advise have nothing to do with the actual measuring of
dimensions off your clothing, nor do I choose the specific piece of clothing
you chose to measure off from. That decision is 100% up to your
free will.

If you measured one of your work shirts, and that shirt length is
27. It's a plain fact based on what you've told me -- your own
shirt would tend to ride up and be un-tucked, as can be expected
3pat BDU shirt made to 27 inches in shirt length for you would "fall
out after a few seconds" from tuck.

The measurement D. as graphically shown on the Size Chart ==>
is simply the shirt length. If you measured 27 from a shirt you own,
transposed the number 27 onto our Size Chart and send it to me ==>
you have told me your shirt length is in fact 27 inches as you require.
That's what we cut your shirt length to. Similarly, we cut your mate's
chest to his measurement specified. Both taken direct from your
respective Size Charts.

To me it's clear. That's why you've experienced misfit in your orders.
It's shame the experience wasn't perfect. I mean that sincerely,
as I wish it were perfect for you. Unfortunately, it can not be undone.

After all the seamstress acted as the expert consultant you entrusted to verify your
measurements to play it "safe" as you've said. Why not take her final opinion as gospel ?
It's obvious she must have taken a tape to you fellows too. Yet she signed off on 27 inches for
shirt length for both of you by the way, yet you guys are not the same height as indicative
of the 3pat pants we made for you. Seems to me the errors were cemented during this "safe"
step, and did not result from following my "exact" advise.

Thus, I can not agree with your advise to randomly add an inch or two
or three, after a tape measure reading has been made. My advise is for
collectors who were wondering about this process
as the OP of the thread has asked for clarification and advise --
measure carefully and correctly. The BDUs which we desire to
outcome from the process will only fit as well as the measurements
you provide. To do that you must measure accurately what your
sizing needs are. This can be done by measuring your own
clothing which you own now. But my advise is not to add
3 inches here, 2 inches there, or subtract an inch -- but
to measure accurately what your needs are.

I hope this helps the next guy ..

_________________

MAA - That seamstress did not take a tape to me, as you advised not to. I was having some patches sewn onto something else at the time, and I took the opportunity to have her look at your chart, and check that I had measured correctly as per the chart itself. I am NOT saying that you made an error. My personal recommendation, however, is that folk add a couple of inches to the tail of the shirt to ensure that there's enough length to tuck it in properly, as I feel that the design warrants such an amendment. ( I think you'd save yourself one hell of a headache if you simply offered S/M/L/XL/XXL and STATED what your standard measurements are. If it's good enough for the armed forces... )

I'm done with this, now.

Guys, please ignore everything I've said.

MAA is perfect at all times, in all things. His communications are always perfect, and any fault is always 100% that of the customer no matter the circumstances.

Like I say... Ignore everything I've said.

_________________
MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

Rev, as I told you on the PM system before, I am far from perfect. To start with I hardly know anyone else
who lacks as much patience as myself, much too quick tempered, and my cussing would make a sailor blush
once I get going.

No one can get it right all the time. Despite our efforts in trying. But on your two orders, the fact is --
we didn't error. We triple checked your made BDUs against your Size Charts, with special instruction
to completely re-fabricate should we find the end product did not match the specification, and we
delivered your items on time for your event once we were satisfied the BDUs matched your specifications.


The following 2 quotes are the PM I sent to confirm your measurement D., as well as all other measurement
on both your Size Chart and your mate's Size Chart which includes his measurement A. as accurate to what
you sent me, and my subsequent reply to your confirmation that we have indeed cut & sewed to the exact
specification we received from you.





Here's a quote from the PM I sent you asking for your contact info. so we can enter that info. on an airway bill, as Mrs. MAA was able to find a one-time good deal from a express forwarder so you and your mate can receive your BDUs on time for your event. We got lucky and the carrier gave us such a good deal to entice further business that we did not need additional payment to upgrade your standard airmail service which may have seen the BDUs come in after your event.



So, as you can review here -- we tried our best to serve you and your mate to the best of our combined
abilities. And we would do this for any collector.

However, we are not perfect and have made errors in fabrication in the past. But we do have a perfect record
restoring those errors leaving the collector those errors affected 100% satisfied. Two other AL moderators
have ordered their 3pat BDUs from us, but the pants for one was smaller than the Size Chart called for.
The sleeves for another one were shorter than the Size Charts called. Both of these errors which we made,
required re-fabrication, and we kept working with each until we got it right. The work was covered under
warranty. Anyone who wish to check the validity of these records, PM me and once I get the permission
from those gents. I can provide full details as to exactly who and what.

So, we still stand behind the BDUs 100%. But it must follow policy & procedure. We have protected ourselves
from being liable when we did not error. I think that's quite a reasonable step for a going concern to take, if
we were to remain in trying to provide BDUs for collectors. I hope that others will agree that tightening
processes and setting policies is fair & proper.

But as with anyone's order for USCM costumes, I tried my best to conform to all needs all the time. To hear
about your orders being short here, tight there -- this is regrettable. I wish they could have been covered
under warranty, but unfortunately the two orders did not qualify. Even then, I tried to come up with a new
way to get replacements for you that would be workable.

But if asked has it been worth the time to reply on this thread. Definitely -- yes. My purpose here is not
to produce verdicts for anyone. Nevertheless, the facts needed be found and shone the right light, the air
be cleared with sticking to on topic discussion -- and then provide a clear & cut case study so that others
can improved their odds to yield perfect BDU order results . IMO -- that's worth doing.

Finally, sticking to the Size Chart format for recording accurate measurements from a loose set of work
clothes or military fatigues is best advise for this process. And please remember to select from your wardrobe
clothes to measure that already fit the way you would like the BDUs to fit. If the clothes you chose to
measure off from does not behave the way you wish your BDUs to turn out, i.e. not long enough in shirt length or
sleeves, too tight in the chest, OR your measurements of those clothes were not fully accurate, e.g. you did
not laid the clothes flat, or the clothes were severely wrinkled, or have shrunk and no longer fits you,
or you did not stretch the clothes out fully, or take the utmost care when measuring, or did not remeasure
twice/thrice/four times to check again the accuracy -- then that may compromise the Size Chart you're
filling in and it may yield misfit results.

I hope exposing our opinions helps the next guy. Cheers~!

_________________

Folks, here's a question a collector just sent which might help you understand taking measurements and the Size Chart process of recording your measurements:



The answer to the above collector is -- yes, that's the correct way to measure shirt length, except for may be it would be slightly better to flip it over and take it from the bottom of the collar to the hem to be even more exact. But perhaps taking tape from the front would save you some time and labor in that your shirt is already perfectly laid out flat as a pancake, AND it allows you to take your pit-2-pit (measurement A.) and sleeve length (measurement C.) all at once. However, you'd have to flip it again and lay it flat again un-wrinkle them by pulling evenly in each direction for tape measure the back width (measurement B.) in any event.

BTW -- to me this process is like drinking water or breathing air, because I've gone through this process on-line either direct or on eBay that it has become instinct. When I looked at the Size Chart for the first time after searching eBay for listing with the same need to capture sizing requirements -- it made perfect sense to me to have such a chart. If it seems foreign to you and confusing, don't get frustrated and start slighting the process. It's a moot point whether you knew the Size Chart existed before trying to acquire custom-made BDUs -- it's plain as day to realize that you have got to get your sizing need information to me some way some how, correct ?

And if you thought -- heck, why not just tell me "I wear an XL T-shirt" and that would suffice to indicate your sizing needs. .. err, no -- it does not suffice. An "XL" is NOT an internationally accepted ISO standard. An "XL" not only vary from different manufacturers, an "XL" from another country could be similar to a "Medium" in the USA. So telling me what sizes you take, even as you see from the collector's mfg. size label in the second photo -- has no meaning in our process, because that's taking a step backwards in the level of detail regarding your exact sizing need.

We had a similar size category system during the days of 2pat BDUs where we would give a list of dimension ranges for each size for basically the same measurements as now found on the Size Chart -- and collectors would scrutinize the size category ranges and determine which standard size they fell to -- i.e. whether they were an XL in shirt and a L in pants. But then about 50% of the time, we get people wanting to add 2 inches in length to an XL shirt, 3 inches + in inseam to a L pants, or going shorter, making the size category system obsolete to handled sizing needs. We abandon that system with the start of the 3pat BDUs. The major problem with the size category system is that the sizing were standardized and not custom to a collector's actual needs. Since you have seen comments posted in this thread -- the sizing always went larger, and more & more people found 2pat BDUs to be much roomier than their needs. Hence, the system became obsolete.

Thus, there is no getting around the process as the Size Chart represents the most efficient way to accurately capture your custom sizing needs. If you get confuse, ask a question like this collector by sending a PM or email and I'll give you my opinion and further guidance until you become familiar with the process. It could be confusing to someone not too familiar with acquiring garments on-line, but it's not rocket science either.

Hope this helps~!

_________________

While we're discussing this topic -- might as well add commentary on CLEANING INSTRUCTIONS FOR 3PAT BDUs:

- WASHING: We recommend machine wash cold water, then hang dry. Hand washing is obviously fine as
that process is gentler on clothing than any type of machine wash.

- DRY CLEANING: is fine. However, my personal experience with dry cleaning is that repeated dry cleaning cycles
tend to fade colors faster than wet washing. If color fading is a concern -- you need to be aware of this tendency for dry cleaning.

- DRYING: We recommend hang drying. If you wish to use machine drying -- use the lowest heat setting possible, OR the lower end of the heat setting which will leave clothes slightly damp, then hang dry. Our personal experience is with our Euro. speck space-saving wash/dry unit only; our space-saving unit's dryer section is under-powered and leaves clothing still damp then require hand dry. I have personally use U.S. type large & separate washer/dryer to clean our BDUs and did not experience shrinkage, but that does not mean that you won't -- so, when using stand alone dedicated dryers or full size combo units, please be reminded of the potent shrinkage capability the heat and duration from such machines; they can cause major havoc in shrinkage on your 3pat BDUs!



WARNING -- it has been reported that leaving 3pat BDUs in powered dryers with ample heat settings and ample duration can lead to undesirable shrinkage. 3pat BDUs are made for 100% cotton as is SU costume. It is a known fact that cotton fabric made from natural fiber can shrink under the right circumstances. During fabrication we automatically factor in for shrinkage. Hence we do NOT recommend over-specifying by adding to your actual sizing needs as doing so have lead to the other spectrum of misfit problem -- garments being excessively roomy to the point of requiring alteration. Although we automatically add on to your specification to account for "normal shrinkage" -- i.e. shrinkage that we have experienced -- this does NOT mean that your 3pat BDUs can be expected to be over-exposed to heat and NOT shrink beyond the normal shrinkage we have accounted for. Bottom line is please be aware of the above care instructions and use caution when cycle cleaning the 3pat BDUs.

I just want to share a personal story to add that our 3pat BDUs are not the only garments made in 100% cotton that can suffer shrinkage due to improper care when cycle cleaning. Case in point -- I routinely purchase Brioni brand 100% cotton T-shirts, a premium globally known fashion house in Italy; I usually get these T-shirts from Neiman Marcus/Harvey Nichols at USD200 a pop. The care instructions are the same as our 3pat BDUs -- machine wash cold, hang dry -- do NOT machine dry. When I stay at my parent's house I usually do my own washing. Then one time I made the mistake of forgetting to take the washings out to hang dry. By the time I remembered and rushed to the machine, I see that my Mum had the dryer going already. End result: Brioni T-shirt, 200 dollars a pop same as 3pat BDUs, made from beautiful Italian Mercerised black sheen super-thin cotton fabric, Euro size 56, US size XXL ==> US Medium and completely useless as tits on a bull. Today the shirt hangs in my closet as a decoration only. Moral of the story -- DRYERS + COTTON ==> shrinkage.

_________________

Thanks for posting! Mine arrived today:) I have lost a couple of inches around the waist since i ordered them. Should i have them tailored or throw them in the dryer since i have room for shrinkage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cUNNKzj_Nc

Quick update, I threw them in the dryer and the shrunk down perfectly:)

_________________
No, they are not going to see this coming...

Recieved My MAA BDU's Today. SPOT ON in fit and quality.
As per the instructions, I measured a loose workshirt and CARGO style pants. No problems...thank you Steve!!!


Semper Fi

Doc Vito

_________________
"Doc" Vito
Sgt.V. D'Aiuto
A07/TQ0.042140E1

"I say we grease this RAT-F*CK Son of B*TCH RIGHT NOW!"