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 Post subject: Smartgun build: Need help with MG42 measurements
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:20 pm 
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Location: Switzerland
Hi there!

I thought I‘d post this here too.
I'm preparing some metalwork for my Aliens smartgun build and I'm in need of some measurements from a real MG42.
I would need these measurements of the part that houses the stock buffer:
Attachment:
98291D6E-BA62-4262-8DAC-F873402A0C3E.png
98291D6E-BA62-4262-8DAC-F873402A0C3E.png [ 1.59 MiB | Viewed 565 times ]


That would be:
1. Diameter of the rear part
2. Length of the rear part
3. Length from the very back to the "plate" in the front
4. Total length
5. Diameter of the front part

Thank you very much in advance for any help.

Cheers!
Roman


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 Post subject: Re: Smartgun build: Need help with MG42 measurements
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:11 pm 
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Location: Switzerland
Alright guys!
Since it's getting harder to ship gun parts across countries, I was lucky enough to find an old, beat-up MG42 stock here in Switzerland.
However, I do not have the slightest clue as to how to get the stock part off.

There's this screw at the bottom, which I can turn just for a barely noticeable amount and then it seems to be stuck:
Attachment:
IMG_2193.jpg
IMG_2193.jpg [ 829.53 KiB | Viewed 393 times ]


And there's the screw in the back, which doesn't budge at all:
Attachment:
IMG_2195.jpg
IMG_2195.jpg [ 802.31 KiB | Viewed 393 times ]


I don't think I can loosen these from the inside:
Attachment:
IMG_2194.jpg
IMG_2194.jpg [ 421.14 KiB | Viewed 393 times ]


I tried heating the parts up and acetone in order to remove any possible glue residue, but to no avail.
Any ideas?

Cheers!
Roman


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 Post subject: Re: Smartgun build: Need help with MG42 measurements
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:12 pm 

Location: Derby
Country: United Kingdom
think you push it in and unscrew the whole buttstock from the plate


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 Post subject: Re: Smartgun build: Need help with MG42 measurements
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:13 pm 

Location: Derby
Country: United Kingdom
but i might be getting confused with the procedure to attach/detach from the gun


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 Post subject: Re: Smartgun build: Need help with MG42 measurements
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:16 pm 
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Location: Switzerland
Yeah, I think that's how you get the stock off the gun.
I looked at a youtube disassembly video, and there it seems that you should be able to get the bottom screw off. Won't work on mine though... :(

Cheers!
Roman


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 Post subject: Re: Smartgun build: Need help with MG42 measurements
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:21 pm 

Location: Derby
Country: United Kingdom
I think it's telling that i can't find the buttstock from mine. maybe i killed it getting it off :)


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 Post subject: Re: Smartgun build: Need help with MG42 measurements
PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:25 pm 

Location: Derby
Country: United Kingdom
just looked at the pics again, the last pic into the body of the metal piece looks like the screw from the back is going into it. That being the case i would focus on that. Give it a few good blasts of wd40 from both ends and let it sit for 30 minutes then try again.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:53 pm 

Location: USA
Service Number: A02/TQ0.0.52138E1
Country: United States
Hi. I'm hot fully informed on everything you have attempted thus far, but have you tried this?

I edited you image to indicate a locking flange/plate thingy. Try flattening it out and loosening the nut it holds in place. This should help with the side/bottom screw.

I cannot see the butt plate screw well, but it also appears to have a nut (with possible flange thingy?), but not sure.

IMG_2194.jpg
IMG_2194.jpg [ 503.71 KiB | Viewed 376 times ]

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:15 pm 
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Location: Switzerland
smrtazzsmrtgnnr wrote:
I edited you image to indicate a locking flange/plate thingy. Try flattening it out and loosening the nut it holds in place. This should help with the side/bottom screw.



That would be immensely helpful, but due to the small space inside, the rather tough steel and the little "grip" you can get on the piece, I can't seem to flatten that part in any way.

More information I got: the rear screw does have some sort of square protrusion so that it cannot be turned. Therefore, the nut has to be removed from the inside and only then can you slide the buttplate screw out. I wonder why they even bothered with a screwdriver slot then... Even if I could get the rear screw off, the rest of the stock can't be removed due to the lower screw which has to be removed in order to slide the actual stock out.

I tried heating the inside again with my heatgun, for two full minutes at 650° Celsius. The whole stock was giving off puffs of smoke, but it still was impossible to turn the screw. This is a bit infuriating; did they use loctite on that screw?!

Cheers!
Roman


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 Post subject: Re: Smartgun build: Need help with MG42 measurements
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:31 pm 

Location: Derby
Country: United Kingdom
I don't think you need to get the sprung bolt out at all. Think that once the back bolt is undone you can slide the rest through whilst pressing the spring bolt (could be wrong)

i didn't find much online but there are these shots.

Attachment:
butt.png
butt.png [ 283.31 KiB | Viewed 323 times ]


Attachment:
butt2.png
butt2.png [ 1.12 MiB | Viewed 323 times ]


wondering if it's something weird like reverse screw thread or push in to unscrew?

As i recall the head screwdriver depth is pretty thin, maybe you could take a dremel with a cutting disc to make the hole deeper for the screwdriver and get more purchase

good luck


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 Post subject: Re: Smartgun build: Need help with MG42 measurements
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:33 pm 

Location: Derby
Country: United Kingdom
one last thing does the rubber plate where the screw goes come off without the screw? wondering if there is something behind it that is locking the screw?


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 Post subject: Re: Smartgun build: Need help with MG42 measurements
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:08 pm 
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Location: Switzerland
Thanks for the input and the blueprints!
As for your ideas:

martinr1000 wrote:
I don't think you need to get the sprung bolt out at all. Think that once the back bolt is undone you can slide the rest through whilst pressing the spring bolt (could be wrong)

The front bolt doesn't go deep enough for the rest to slide over, I'm pretty sure.

martinr1000 wrote:
wondering if it's something weird like reverse screw thread or push in to unscrew?

I tried that all, the screw won't budge either way and there's no change when pushed in.

martinr1000 wrote:
As i recall the head screwdriver depth is pretty thin, maybe you could take a dremel with a cutting disc to make the hole deeper for the screwdriver and get more purchase

I might try that, but it will certainly be a last resort.

martinr1000 wrote:
one last thing does the rubber plate where the screw goes come off without the screw? wondering if there is something behind it that is locking the screw?

If you mean the actual buttplate, I don't believe this can even be removed at all.
If you're talking about the metal pieces inside, I can't seem to move them at all, except the motion when I push in the lower screw.


There has got to be somebody here that has a real MG42 and has removed that part. I just need to know whether mine is exceptionally resilient (i.e. loctite or something) or whether there is some sort of trick to it...

Cheers!
Roman


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 Post subject: Re: Smartgun build: Need help with MG42 measurements
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:46 pm 

Location: Derby
Country: United Kingdom
well this is the guy. doesn't look very special in terms of any locking mechanism. I suspect it's just a bit seized up and quite tight in terms of tolerance. With my gun i think i ended up cutting the stock part off around the screw after which it was easier to remove it. Not the best option i guess but it did the trick for me.

Attachment:
butt.png
butt.png [ 91 KiB | Viewed 301 times ]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:49 pm 

Service Number: A05/TQ2.0.32141E1
Country: United States
brpguns.com sells mg42 parts. Reach out to them and see what they have. They sell most all the parts to build a full on semi auto mg42.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:53 am 
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Location: Wellywood, New Zealand.
Service Number: A10/TQ0.0.82146E1
Country: New Zealand
Yeah, I think reach out to to BRP Guns, as Jokers says, and ask them. Or try https://www.robertrtg.com/ I've bought things from them in the past, and they were always helpful [am assuming this link still works, I can't access it from my work PC].

Looking at my stock [a Yugo M53], I can depress the sprung bolt, and there's maybe 5mm of travel. It's been years since I've had the stock attached to the receiver; my Yugo just lives in a dark corner of my safe.

Attachment:
MG42 stock.jpg
MG42 stock.jpg [ 424.2 KiB | Viewed 281 times ]


Guessing, but I think you'd need find a way to loosen that nut at the back (you can just see mine, looks a little rusty), with a pair of needle-nose pliers, working around the sprung bolt ... ?

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A10/TQ0.0.82146E1


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 Post subject: Re: Smartgun build: Need help with MG42 measurements
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:34 am 
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Location: Switzerland
martinr1000 wrote:
well this is the guy. doesn't look very special in terms of any locking mechanism. I suspect it's just a bit seized up and quite tight in terms of tolerance. With my gun i think i ended up cutting the stock part off around the screw after which it was easier to remove it. Not the best option i guess but it did the trick for me.
Attachment:
The attachment butt.png is no longer available


Hmm... most images as well as the youtube disassembly videos show the butt plate screw as having a square protrusion that prevents turning it. In fact, the picture you posted confirms this:
Attachment:
butt2.png
butt2.png [ 519.2 KiB | Viewed 265 times ]

It seems that it isn't the same on every stock (my stock is an Austrian model from Steyr), so it might be a normal screw, but it seems that you are supposed to remove the nut on the inside first.
But I'm also thinking about cutting off the stock and then trying to remove it, just trying to see if there is a non-destructive way first.


knoxvilles_joker wrote:
brpguns.com sells mg42 parts. Reach out to them and see what they have. They sell most all the parts to build a full on semi auto mg42.

Impossible to get gun parts from the US. Look at the photo of the buttscrew in the post above yours: "Shipment prohibited outside USA". For a screw! So I'd have to order via my local dealer which bumps up prices a lot. I usually have to source locally. Also, I already have the stock, just seeing if I can disassemble it without destroying it. Doesn't look good at the moment. :wink:


septic wrote:
Looking at my stock [a Yugo M53], I can depress the sprung bolt, and there's maybe 5mm of travel. It's been years since I've had the stock attached to the receiver; my Yugo just lives in a dark corner of my safe.

Guessing, but I think you'd need find a way to loosen that nut at the back (you can just see mine, looks a little rusty), with a pair of needle-nose pliers, working around the sprung bolt ... ?


I guess the rear screw really only comes off once you remove the nut inside. However, it's damn near impossible to get to the nut with pliers, it seems to be smaller on my grip too, and the other screw is in the way.

Can you remove the front/bottom screw on your stock?


Cheers!
Roman


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:16 pm 

Service Number: A05/TQ2.0.32141E1
Country: United States
After ww2 the mg42 was copied extensively. Some variation is to be expected...

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:02 am 
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Location: Wellywood, New Zealand.
Service Number: A10/TQ0.0.82146E1
Country: New Zealand
Had another play, The [external] "head" of that vertical bolt is slotted, but looks to require a specialised tool, which I don't have. I was able to turn it with a chisel [my g/dad was, no doubt, spinning in his grave at that :) ), but it doesn't seem to really do much for releasing the bolt itself.

Better plan I think, is to try and flatten the metal 'collar' that holds the nut captive, and then you'll hopefully be able to spin the nut up [compressing the spring] to give the bolt enough travel to move down out of its 'socket' on the [inside] top of the stock. The metal on mine seemed soft enough to bend with pliers when I experimented, but I didn't try too much, as my stock is part of a working/complete firearm, and for now, I don't want to do anything that I can't undo later.

Attachment:
MG42 stock - captive nut.jpg
MG42 stock - captive nut.jpg [ 286.36 KiB | Viewed 186 times ]
These folded flappy bits :)


Also, just to close it out as 'thing to try', I was unable to move the large internal nut holding the horizontal bolt in. Dunno if it's maybe corroded or welded in place, but doesn't seem look it's meant to move (at least not while the vertical bolt is in the way, ... things might be different if I could get a socket wrench onto that bad boy!)

_________________
Cpl Aron "Septic" Williams
A10/TQ0.0.82146E1


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:35 pm 

Service Number: A05/TQ2.0.32141E1
Country: United States
I am not sure if a sawzaw blade would work on getting the bolt cut. WW2 re-enactors and maybe matty matsucorp may be folks you want to reach out to on some clarifications/explanations.

septic wrote:
Had another play, The [external] "head" of that vertical bolt is slotted, but looks to require a specialised tool, which I don't have. I was able to turn it with a chisel [my g/dad was, no doubt, spinning in his grave at that :) ), but it doesn't seem to really do much for releasing the bolt itself.

Better plan I think, is to try and flatten the metal 'collar' that holds the nut captive, and then you'll hopefully be able to spin the nut up [compressing the spring] to give the bolt enough travel to move down out of its 'socket' on the [inside] top of the stock. The metal on mine seemed soft enough to bend with pliers when I experimented, but I didn't try too much, as my stock is part of a working/complete firearm, and for now, I don't want to do anything that I can't undo later.

Attachment:
MG42 stock - captive nut.jpg
These folded flappy bits :)


Also, just to close it out as 'thing to try', I was unable to move the large internal nut holding the horizontal bolt in. Dunno if it's maybe corroded or welded in place, but doesn't seem look it's meant to move (at least not while the vertical bolt is in the way, ... things might be different if I could get a socket wrench onto that bad boy!)

_________________
The impossible takes a while longer and goes over budget too...


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:27 pm 
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Location: Switzerland
septic wrote:
Had another play, The [external] "head" of that vertical bolt is slotted, but looks to require a specialised tool, which I don't have. I was able to turn it with a chisel [my g/dad was, no doubt, spinning in his grave at that :) ), but it doesn't seem to really do much for releasing the bolt itself.

Better plan I think, is to try and flatten the metal 'collar' that holds the nut captive, and then you'll hopefully be able to spin the nut up [compressing the spring] to give the bolt enough travel to move down out of its 'socket' on the [inside] top of the stock. The metal on mine seemed soft enough to bend with pliers when I experimented, but I didn't try too much, as my stock is part of a working/complete firearm, and for now, I don't want to do anything that I can't undo later.

Attachment:
The attachment MG42 stock - captive nut.jpg is no longer available
These folded flappy bits :)


Also, just to close it out as 'thing to try', I was unable to move the large internal nut holding the horizontal bolt in. Dunno if it's maybe corroded or welded in place, but doesn't seem look it's meant to move (at least not while the vertical bolt is in the way, ... things might be different if I could get a socket wrench onto that bad boy!)



Thank you septic!
Seeing that you couldn't get the bolt out with a screwdriver... err... chisel... ;-) , this convinced me that there must be some dark magic at work and that there must be a solution.
After reading several MG42 manuals, I found the official solution:
Attachment:
Solution.jpg
Solution.jpg [ 125.32 KiB | Viewed 93 times ]

"Problem: Stock lock worn out. Solution: New stock lock. Parts and Notes: When removing stock lock, bend back locking plate and unscrew nut."

So you and smrtazzsmrtgnnr were right, I'll have to bend those "flappy bits" down to remove the nut, and from there on, everything should be easy... maybe... ;-)

Thanks for all your help. I'll keep you posted.

Cheers!
Roman


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