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 Post subject: Ultimate Sidearm options list (general reference)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:52 pm 
THAT guy
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Another 'resource' list that contains nothing ‘new’, but with the influx of newer members (prompted by the game release perhaps?), I thought it might be useful to put this list together as a definitive reference for any and all questions relating to sidearms. (Also I don't quite know why, but this stuff is fun for me, so at least I entertain myself...)

Anyways, if any of you out there have not yet added a sidearm to your kit, are thinking about upgrading, or are still wet behind the ears and simply don’t know: you have plenty of options!


VP70:
Image

-Used by: Gorman, Crowe, Frost, Dietrich, Ferro, Spunkmeyer, featured in the Tech Manual, and also featured Aliens: Colonial Marines (A:CM) video game.
Attachment:
VP70 Compilation.jpg
VP70 Compilation.jpg [ 488.76 KiB | Viewed 12140 times ]


-History/Notes: Chosen for the film because of its "Futuristic" look (for its day), but never really caught on in real life. Heckler and Kotch were ahead of their time with the 'grandfather of plastic handguns' but a long trigger pull and a sight system dependent on ambient light (use of shadows in the sight system) kept its fan base pretty small.

-How worn: The VP70 is worn 4 different ways in the film. Any of them would be 100% cannon, especially if you use those ugly fabric holsters!

-Gorman utilized a tradition pistol belt and holster combo. Simple. Classic. (Note he was a 'lefty' though, and he has the flap folded back and handle pointed outward so that he could reach across to draw it).
-The flight crew wore them "bandolier" style. Over the shoulder, but under the flak Jacket.
-Apone wore his on his grenade strap.
-Most of the Squad wore them in a semi "drop holster" position. They were attached to the regular belt, but not directly on it like Gorman. They are lower than belt level in all 3 cases. Often the holster is actually directly under the 'small pouch'. Crowe and Dietrich appear to have utilized rope or paracord to lower theirs. Frost almost looks like the straps from his ab/crotch guard is what is holding his.


-Where to find them?: Being that it was never truly popular even in its “prime”, toy and airsoft versions of the gun are not exactly plentiful. Unless you stumble upon a goldmine of 80s era dart-guns (like retro recently did), you may find yourself spending hundreds on the rare airsoft versions.
Your best bet is likely to get one of Spat's excellent resin casts. As far as I know, Spat is also the last guy still making the screen accurate holsters.


S&W M39

Image

-History: Often mistaken for a Colt 1911, it has similar features but is shorter with a more inclined profile from the trigger guard forward. The one used by Vasquez had a distinctive pearl handle on hers.

-Used by: Vasquez

-How worn: Vasquez utilized a “chest” holster. It featured a leather case attached to a deceptively non-complicated belt system. Bottom half of rig looks to be basic belt worn by all marines, and over the shoulder portion looks to be a pulse sling. Just a theory, but check this pic. Of course, you can probably tuck one wherever you like.
Image

-Where to find: Airsoft and Resin casts do exist, but are very difficult to locate. Happy hunting!


M4A3 Pistol

Image
Image

History: Tech Manual notation uses a picture of a 1911 model .45 pistol with its description stating its round capacity to match that of the air duct scene when Vaz runs out of ammo. Its likely that this weapon was confused with Vasquez’s M39 due to similar features, and was listed in error, but it has become canon with its tech manual listing combined with heavy usage in the A:CM game.

Used by: No one in the movie, but nearly every marine in the A:CM video game.

How worn: I don’t believe the tech manual ever featured a holster, but it stands to reason any of the above methods in any available holster would work.

The Marines and WY PMCs in the A:CM video game wore them dominantly via a modern style “drop leg” holster. The PMC holster was more squared (as if it had room for laser sights and accesories) while the marine one was more minimual leaving much of the pistol exposed.
Image

Where to find: Everywhere! The old school “colt .45” or 1911 is among the most popular pistols models ever made. As such, countless toy and Airsoft versions exist. They are plentiful and often quite cheap. If your stuck for a pistol, grab one.


M4A4

Image
Image

History: This is the primary sidearm featured in AvP2 for the PC (and taking place 50 years after the primary “canon” events, it stands to reason this replaces the M4A3 outlined above). Normally I wouldn’t include a weapon so removed from the cannon in a list like this, but due to the fact it drew so heavily from a real life weapon, the H&K Mk 23, it seems a logical weapon for costuming, as replicas are easily available. If you really want something “different”, this choice has enough ties to the source material that I for one would never argue with you.

Used by: Everyone in AvP2 (for what that’s worth).

How worn: Beats me. They magically appear in the hands of the guys in the game, so go nuts. Get creative.

Where to Find: Replica and airsoft versions are out there. Spray it OD green and you have a winner.



Ithaca Model 37/ Armat M37A2

Image

History: If I remember correctly, the novelization of the film states this weapon was a family heirloom passed down to Hicks and he carries it around as a personal choice. The movie said nothing except that he had it. The A:CM video game expands on the movie by not only re-naming it the M37A2, but declares it to be an issued weapon. (But does leave “hick’s version” as its own thing). Go with what you prefer I guess.

Used by: Hicks exclusively in the film, but common for Weyland-Yutani PMCs and Marines in the A:CM game.

How Worn: Full length leather holster on back for Hicks. In Video game, it wasn't clear to me as if they had one,they were usually firing them.

Where to find: Airsoft mostly. Many models are not exact, but are close enough if your not picky.



The 2 Screen-Accurate Knives

(Section EDITED Heavily to incorporate information from another thread and add key info revealed later in this same thread. Also re-organized to presentation to same "what, how, where to find" format as above weapons)

-Gerber Mk2 Fighting Knife: (and/or its Explorer COPY!!!)
Image

History: Demoncase had a LOT of great info on this knife in his thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12598
A beloved knife of military veterans, knife collectors/enthusiasts, and Aliens fans alike. With it's aggressive looks, real life quality and impeccable reputation, this line which began in the 60s is still very popular today.

***UPDATE***
This thread sheds a lot of light (and further questions) on whether it even was a true Gerber!
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13654&p=212912#p212912
Some pretty strong evidence that the knife used in the film was actually a 'knockoff' and not a true Gerber Mk2. Wild and convincing stuff.

Used by & how worn: Hudson exclusively (attached to left grenade strap)

Where to find: To get the "most accurate" version of a REAL Gerber Mk2 (blade and sheath), one should target knives serial # 044016 - 085000 (1977-1979). To get the most accurate blade color, it should be "blued" (explanations found in demoncases's thread above).
But...recent events reveal it was hardly a sure thing it was even a true gerber. The knockoffs, in particular the Explorer, are probably the actual items. Any replica is a perfectly acceptable so dive in and be happy.

For something more practical, several members here sell resin and urethane casts. In particular "handle only" casts are very safe for conventions. They look great and dont pose any risk of confiscation if worn in public settings.




-Scalemead Survival Knives / Explorer Night Raiders
Image

History: *See Bug Stompers details on Scalemead vs. Explorer later in thread.
They are distinctive in their hollow handles and screw-cap ends, but are not large or flashy. It lacks the “cool factor” the Gerber carries, but despite this it was actually the far more popular option for the Marine characters (6:1 ratio)!.

Attachment:
Knife compilation.jpg
Knife compilation.jpg [ 506.35 KiB | Viewed 12141 times ]

Used by & how worn: They were carried by Hicks (taped to left grenade strap), Drake (tied to left boot, see later pic), Crowe (clipped to belt on left hip, see first pic above), Vasquez (tied to right boot, see Spectre’s pic later in thread), Apone (in continuity pics he had it clipped on his right shoulder bell, but in movie it was on right strap UNDER his VP70 holster! - See later post in this thread)), and Frost (clip around a loop that is attached to belt on left hip so it hangs lower than belt, see later pic)


Where to find: For real ones, sadly ebay is your best bet. If all you care about is the distinctive screw cap handle, I have discovered the Explorer “Wilderness II” (NOT regular “wilderness”) uses the exact same handle as the Scalemead Survival & Night Riader, however it's blade and factory sheath are VERY different. For copies, follow the threads as several members have expressed plans to sell casts.



So thats what I got. Go with the above gear and roam the convention halls happily and "accurately".


Last edited by bigbisont on Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:44 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:16 pm 
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This stuff is great Terran! I'm hoping these threads will end up in the archive [HINT HINT] to help answer questions for folks going forward.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:29 pm 
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retrogarde wrote:
This stuff is great Terran! I'm hoping these threads will end up in the archive [HINT HINT] to help answer questions for folks going forward.


Thanks! I just hope someone actually reads it! Not that I don't enjoy making them, but hopefully they do eventually prove useful.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:36 pm 
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Hicks's shotgun is the Ithaca 37.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:38 pm 
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Ttaskmaster wrote:
Hicks's shotgun is the Ithaca 37.

Whoa, major spelling typo. FIXED! Thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:17 pm 
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So we aren't "stuck" with one handgun?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:38 pm 
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J2H wrote:
So we aren't "stuck" with one handgun?


Never were. Even with just movie canon, you have the Veep or the S&W!
Pearl grips are for girls, though... ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:45 pm 
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Here is a great list too :)

http://uscmc.wikispaces.com/pistols

bigbisont, I love these threads!!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:12 am 
This is SOOOOO helpful!!! The reference pics are great! Thank you!

Now..which one to pick...a sawed off, or pistol for my load out? Hmmmm....I guess we'll see which one I run into first in my travels!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:38 am 
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Wasn't the Ithaca also modded with an MP40 grip or something in the film?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:33 am 
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punkmarine wrote:
Wasn't the Ithaca also modded with an MP40 grip or something in the film?


Indeed it was:

Attachment:
hicksshotgun4lge.jpg
hicksshotgun4lge.jpg [ 110.1 KiB | Viewed 13304 times ]



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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Sidearm options list (general reference)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:39 am 
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Magnus, just keep in mind that sawed-off shotguns in Canada are prohibited... so, you may bring unnecessary attention to yourself...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:34 am 
I'll keep that in mind when I'm on the lookout for one. Oddly, some of the airsoft shotguns are very, very short!


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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Sidearm options list (general reference)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:22 am 
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bigbisont wrote:
I read somewhere Vasquez had one as well, but no idea where. (insert crude joke about finding it here).


I seem to recall catching a fleeting glimpse of it on one of her boots at some point, but it's been too long for me to recall.

Edit: Confirmed. She has it tied to her right boot/shin with a strip of OD fabric. You can see it reasonably well when they first enter the compound after Gorman sends Hicks' squad inside.

Image
Image

Poor quality screencaps, but it's pretty easy to see watching the scene. Interestingly, the knife looks rather large to be a Night Raider, being about as tall as her boot.

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Last edited by Spectre on Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:33 am 
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Nice list. Thanks for putting it together!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:26 pm 
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Thanks for that Spectre, I'd never noticed it before!

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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Sidearm options list (general reference)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:08 pm 
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Spectre wrote:
Edit: Confirmed. She has it tied to her right boot/shin with a strip of OD fabric. You can see it reasonably well when they first enter the compound after Gorman sends Hicks' squad inside.
...
Interestingly, the knife looks rather large to be a Night Raider, being about as tall as her boot.


That is actually quite awesome. Thanks Spectre! So Vaz rocked the right boot. Drake rocked the left.

Image
(In case anyone wanted a pic)


As far as it looking "too big", I think people keep forgetting Jeanette was 5' 2". I think that lil' leg just makes it look bigger :wink: .

But I now remember it was Harry's website stating she had the Raider. If it was something different I think Harry would be the man to know.


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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Sidearm options list (general reference)
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:01 pm 
THAT guy
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So stumbled across some nifty photos. First was an update to how Dietrich wore here VP70s. Speculation that it was tied off with rope/paracord similar to Crowe is confirmed. Picture updated above and thanks to Magnus' "reference shot" thread for that pic.

Next thing worth noting - Frost had an Explorer Night Raider as well!
He wore it on his belt, left side. Most of the time it wasnt visible as the ammo/dump bag concealed it in the shadows, but it was there!

ImageImage

So your updated, photo-confirmed Explorer Night Raider carriers are:
Hicks (left strap)
Vaz (right boot)
Drake (left boot)
Crowe (belt, left hip)
Frost (belt, left hip)
Apone (Continuity poloroids show Raider on his right shoulder bell, but in actual filming it was on his right Grenade strap [VP70 holster covering sheath, but handle definitely popping out bottom]) *Apone entry EDITED 7/19/13

Only non-knife carrying marines are Ski and Dietrich.


Last edited by bigbisont on Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:33 pm 
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This is great reference bigbisont!

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:46 pm 
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retrogarde wrote:
This stuff is great Terran! I'm hoping these threads will end up in the archive [HINT HINT] to help answer questions for folks going forward.

It'd be best for all the pics to be uploaded to the forum, in case their originating host disappears in time.

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:17 pm 
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PVB wrote:
retrogarde wrote:
This stuff is great Terran! I'm hoping these threads will end up in the archive [HINT HINT] to help answer questions for folks going forward.

It'd be best for all the pics to be uploaded to the forum, in case their originating host disappears in time.


How does one go about that? Is it as easy as using the "add file" feature on the thread tools, or is there a better way?


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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Sidearm options list (general reference)
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:10 pm 
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Really nice thread!

However the knife used in the movie isn't the Explorer Night Raider!
Have a look at this picture taken during the production of Aliens.
It shows a stainless steel blade with "SCALEMEAD SURVIVAL" on it.
The "EXPLORER NIGHT RAIDER" has differend markings and a dark (almost black) blade.

Here a comparison:
Attachment:
SAM_0815s.jpg
SAM_0815s.jpg [ 206.22 KiB | Viewed 13133 times ]


Attachment:
SAM_0816s.jpg
SAM_0816s.jpg [ 203.44 KiB | Viewed 13133 times ]


So while the Night Raider might fit better to a black Gerber Mark II the movie accurate version would be the Scalemead Survival.

Cheers,
Stefan


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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Sidearm options list (general reference)
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 12:27 am 
THAT guy
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Bug Stomper wrote:
Really nice thread!

However the knife used in the movie isn't the Explorer Night Raider!
...

So while the Night Raider might fit better to a black Gerber Mark II the movie accurate version would be the Scalemead Survival.

Cheers,
Stefan


Up is down, left is right, dogs and cats living together, MASS HYSTARIA.

So...interesting. But, having yet to google this, my suspicion is both Scalemead and explorer were both sub-licenses/exports of Gutmann knives. I know the Explorers were actually Gutmanns. The fact the knives appear identical except for blade finish seems to me a surefire sign they are of the same origin and parent company. Just a guess. An update following an intense google search is sure to follow...


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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Sidearm options list (general reference)
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 6:25 am 
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I'm pretty sure that you are right here. Guttman was new to me but I already found before that the Scalemead was just a rebrand of a japanese manufactured knife.

Cheers,
Stefan


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 Post subject: Re: Ultimate Sidearm options list (general reference)
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 9:30 pm 
MODEL 120-A2
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Bug Stomper wrote:
I'm pretty sure that you are right here. Guttman was new to me but I already found before that the Scalemead was just a rebrand of a japanese manufactured knife.

Cheers,
Stefan


I haven't been able to find any info on Scalemead, but Guttmann Cutlery WAS the importer/distributor of the Japanese made Explorer Night Raider. If that is the case, and Scalemead was a rebrand, it was probably imported by Guttmann as well. It could be something as simple as the difference between the blackened/non-blackened Gerber Mk II (the originals weren't blacked, the new ones are).

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