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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:33 am 
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As i say, I can understand your pride in your uniform and you concerns... But maybe don't be a dick about it and you'll get a better response from people.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:02 am 
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Location: Gastonia, NC 28056 USA
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They are being posers and dicks by doing this. Common sense should be if it wasn't in the movie, you don't do it.

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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:24 pm 
Miscreant and Foukérre
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•ONEYE• wrote:
WDI wrote:
I don't think he's concerned about being "501st level" screen-accurate; I think he doesn't like people wearing uniforms which have no precedent from the film and look too much like people dressing up in his uniform.

I can understand that....


Exactly. I'm not crying to my mama. I'm coming to the source, you chuckle heads, that take my dress uniform (specifically Dress Blues) and cuntify it.



First warning; Check your language and your attitude.
Any more grief like that and you're banned.

For the record, we have a number of serving and ex-Military in the various Colonial Marines costume groups worldwide, including members of the USMC.
They are absolutely fine with the idea of USCM Dress Blues, and the various interpretations of the idea that have appeared over the years - providing anyone who has put together such a uniform has taken care not to use the real EGA and other such insignia.

If you don't like it, don't wear it.
If you don't like seeing it, either refrain from commenting, or politely explain your concerns. Make suggestions, not demands... But bear in mind that this is a costuming group, seeking to emulate the film universe's uniforms, and expand upon those concepts in line with the movie's visual style.

Do not insult and attack other members of this forum over it, certainly not using the language you've done so here.


Chain of command on this forum starts with the Forum Rules which you accepted when you signed up. Moderators are here to enforce those rules.
So as I said - Please check how you interact with other forum users, or you will no longer be a forum user.
Thank you.

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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:37 pm 

Location: Atlanta GA
Service Number: A09/TQ2.0.02151G1
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I can't really add more here, other than I also served in the US Marines, and if anyone who didn't serve wanted to wear the EGA, I would have quite loud personal issues about it.

The USMC EGA is earned, not bought; there is even a specific ceremony at USMC Boot Camp for the Drill Instructors to give them to recruits. That lends a highly personal aspect to the EGA for US Marines.

On to Dress Blues: I don't remember seeing dress blues for the USCM anywhere in the movies. I can't say I've seen them in any of the books, but I haven't read everything, so I don't know. I do know that if you wanted to do that, I would rather it be a version that was radically different from the USMC Dress Blue A/B uniform. I'd rather if everyone wanted it, we could submit original ideas instead of attempting to modify the Dress Blue jacket, as that distresses both myself and other Marines both inside and outside the Legacy.

No one wants a distressed Marine.

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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:28 pm 
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Location: West Sussex
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Adept705 wrote:
On to Dress Blues: I don't remember seeing dress blues for the USCM anywhere in the movies... I'd rather if everyone wanted it, we could submit original ideas instead of attempting to modify the Dress Blue jacket, as that distresses both myself and other Marines both inside and outside the Legacy.


ONEYE has dug up an issue that is 12 years old.

When Kev floated the Dress Blues idea back in 2007 there was much discussion over design and the development of the concept, and many members of the forum gave their input. Although it was one man's costume you could say that it was a combined design. The idea was very openly "expanded universe" (i.e. created in the spirit of the genre rather than as something seen on film) and Kev was very concerned not to cause offence - hence the open discussion.
There were those back then who made their concerns known. ONEYE was one of them... and fair enough.

In fact, within two posts Kev had taken that feedback and decided that he would not pursue the idea specifically because he didn't want to cause offence.
ONEYE followed up to say that he didn't see any reason why someone couldn't design a fictional dress blues uniform - "an original design with a nod towards the real uniform."

From there the project continued, design by committee (in a manner much as you've said you would like to see).
Evidently ONEYE didn't like the result that was achieved.
I'm not sure that the uniform has even been worn since back then.


I'm not at all sure what ONEYE was aiming to achieve by digging up a 12 year old issue - which he originally green-lit - and which may not even be an issue anymore. :?

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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:50 pm 
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scapey warned you and now i am warning you. If you continue to resurrect these old threads just to troll and attack members, you WILL face a disciplinary hearing. do not continue your attack on members.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:02 am 
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Location: Gastonia, NC 28056 USA
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Good bye posers. I didn't green light shit. I happened to see that maggot wearing the dress blues, sucking in his gut, and trying to look hard. Pathetic. You shouldn't any part of a real USMC uniform. You douche bags are worthy, and it looks and is wrong. I see any of you wearing it, YOU'RE warned, have some back up clothing near by, you'll need it.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:29 am 
Miscreant and Foukérre
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•ONEYE• wrote:
Good bye posers. I didn't green light shit. I happened to see that maggot wearing the dress blues, sucking in his gut, and trying to look hard. Pathetic. You shouldn't any part of a real USMC uniform. You douche bags are worthy, and it looks and is wrong. I see any of you wearing it, YOU'RE warned, have some back up clothing near by, you'll need it.


And with that threat of violence, you are GONE.
No need for that shit, from anyone, ever - Military or not.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:33 am 
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•ONEYE• wrote:
I didn't green light shit.


Short memory, eh?
Maybe I can help with that...

Attachment:
ONEYE.JPG
ONEYE.JPG [ 47.13 KiB | Viewed 1029 times ]


•ONEYE• wrote:
sucking in his gut, and trying to look hard. Pathetic.

I can see only person around here trying to look hard... :roll:

•ONEYE• wrote:
Good bye posers

See ya then... I don't think we'll be missing you.
Military service earns a certain professional respect. Being a complete dick earns you zero personal respect in spite of your service.

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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:18 pm 
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Location: Berlin
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A well earned ban for the time being. Thanks for taking care Scapey/mods.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:26 pm 
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Service Number: A01/TQ2.0.42137E1
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I do agree that the EGA shouldn't be used on a USCM uniform (and we have agreed here on the board not to use it). I think it's been made clear on this board how we as a group feel about people who fraudulently pretend to be actual vets. You don't have to be a dick about it.

I'm a disabled veteran myself (US Army 1988-2000) and like most grown men with emotional maturity I am capable of recognizing the difference between wearing a COSTUME at a convention and fraudulently impersonating a veteran.

Sometimes I'll see a kid (I'm 50) wearing a military-style uniform from Metal Gear or COD; when I do, I'll complement them if it's accurate or offer constructive criticism if it needs to be improved. If they are using real insignia I might suggest they remove it, depending on the context and circumstances.

When I do encounter someone who is genuinely trying to impersonate a veteran, I will definitely say something, but this doesn't happen much at conventions.

Sometimes I'll see active duty military personnel at conventions (either attending or sometimes staying in the hotel for other reasons). They always think my stuff is pretty neat - even the USCM alphas. One of my favorite experiences was meeting some guys who were on the way to Afghanistan when I was wearing my MW2 Ghost costume. They wanted to buy some of my tac gear to take with them!

When in USCM gear I sometimes get comments like, "Thank you for yer service". My response is to say, "Thank you, while I am a veteran this is actually a costume from the movie 'Aliens.'" People usually understand that.

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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:12 am 
Lifer
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Location: **Hamilton** Active Duty: USS Socorro
Country: Canada
What

just

happened?


For the record- my putting together a dress blues uniform for the colonial marines can be summed up as "it seemed like a good idea at the time."

ELEVEN YEARS AGO.


ELEVEN YEARS AGO.


(one more time for those in the back)


ELEVEN YEARS AGO.


I'm not going to rehash all that. Suffice to say- it was worn by me for a total of "two" times during the D-Con weekend of 2008.

Two Thousand and Eight.


It has sat in my closet since. I have had no desire to put it on since that weekend ELEVEN YEARS AGO and never will again.

So no worries then right?



And just to say it- I "do" understand where this level of defensiveness and (for lack of a better term) "protectiveness" is coming from.

And I also believe Dress Blues "should" be off limits (admittedly however, it took me a few years to truly understand this).



Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:06 pm 
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Location: UK all the way
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Kev just face it.

You're clearly a very bad person and everyone hates you.


SSgt Burton wrote:
What

just

happened?


For the record- my putting together a dress blues uniform for the colonial marines can be summed up as "it seemed like a good idea at the time."

ELEVEN YEARS AGO.


ELEVEN YEARS AGO.


(one more time for those in the back)


ELEVEN YEARS AGO.


I'm not going to rehash all that. Suffice to say- it was worn by me for a total of "two" times during the D-Con weekend of 2008.

Two Thousand and Eight.


It has sat in my closet since. I have had no desire to put it on since that weekend ELEVEN YEARS AGO and never will again.

So no worries then right?



And just to say it- I "do" understand where this level of defensiveness and (for lack of a better term) "protectiveness" is coming from.

And I also believe Dress Blues "should" be off limits (admittedly however, it took me a few years to truly understand this).



Kevin


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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:54 pm 
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I spent many years in the british army in and outland,just like many others, and i have also worked alongside the USMC in diferent Situations,and i can say these guys are verry proud of there uniform,which they should be after all they have earned the right to ware it just like us in the british army.

If i was at a convention and i saw someone wearing any sort of british army PARA insignia on a Kostum,i probably would speak to them,but in a polite manner.

I would never get angry or be aggresive towards anybody who has les knowlege of the military but you can always point them in the right Direktion.

There is much Sackrifice and pain involved in earning
the wright to wear a military uniform,but never the les we should still be Patient with the less knowlegiable.

All i will say if it's not earned please dont wear it.

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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:44 pm 
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That's basically what I was trying to say, by saying point them in the right direction.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:19 pm 
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Mantroon wrote:
I think it's in the collective best interest to encourage the ones with common sense, forgive and educate those who make mistakes and purge the ones living out their power fantasies.


Perfectly put.

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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:10 pm 
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I think we've got quite a good cross-section amongst the membership; there are many of us with military service or connections. We're in a good position to keep things on the right track and in fact I'd say that as an 'organisation' we achieve it pretty well.

This latest debacle was really blown out of proportion by somebody with a sad on. I don't think it's truly indicative of the group.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 2:57 am 
Lifer
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Mantroon wrote:
The line does tend to blur between paying homage to a military force in a movie and stolen valor.

...forgive and educate those who make mistakes


I certainly hope you don't lump "me" into that category.

Kevin

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 3:33 pm 
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Of course the elephant in the room is that Gorman's dress cap has the EGA (which stands for Eagle, Globe and Anchor - I had to look that up!) right on the front.

Harry

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:50 pm 
Lifer
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Location: **Hamilton** Active Duty: USS Socorro
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Mantroon wrote:
Honestly? For me personally, I felt a lot of the Dress Blues and Color Guard inched dangerously close to that line.


You're absolutely right- it did.

Quote:
However, I also know you did your best not to cross it.


Thank you- and yes I was bound and determined to "not" have this be a stolen valor case (which wasn't even a term back then). We're I to do it all over, I probably would not go with a genuine USMC tunic and cap- but rather close enough look-a-likes so there would be even less reason for controversy.


Quote:
Others however... that's a different matter.

I looked at things like the DB and CG and thought "It's nice and all, but this is starting to have very little to do with the Alien franchise and is more about playing soldier".


Indeed.

I've said it before and I'll say it again- during my time at D-Con in 2008 in my Service C and full Dress Blues there were two incidents in which I was "Thanked"-

One in which a homeless person came up to me and said "Welcome home." I didn't have the heart to tell him I was just "playing soldier."

And a second in which while crossing the street between hotels, a woman in costume walking the opposite way looked at me and simple said "Thank you."

THAT made me feel like a complete imposter and solidified that I would never wear this "costume" again.

However any time I was asked if the uniform was real or if I was actually in the military I not only said I wasn't and this was a costume, but that I wasn't even an American.


And again- the whole thing came out of wanting to create an Honor Guard as a tribute to Chris that year (for those who don't know- Chris Chulamanis was a member of this board who passed away in 2008- it is why I am wearing a black armband with "FNG"- Chris' screenname).

But- admittedly, what started out as wanting to create a fictional formal uniform as a tribute got out of control.


Did it feel good to be wearing that uniform leading the parade that year- yes it did. But I'll never do it again.


Kevin

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:27 pm 
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Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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For me, having a set of dress Alphas was about having appropriate dress for the military ball at Manticon. While Manticon was run by the Royal Manticoran Navy fan groups (from David Weber's excellent books) I wanted to do something to represent the USCM.

I was originally going to wear Charlies but Kevin's idea inspired me to swing for the fences. (I'll admit that in part I wanted to show up the fancy RMN folks)

Like Kevin, I took great care NOT to appropriate any actual military accouterments. The base jacket for my uniform was a police jacket (not USMC) and my hat was a "fashion" item, not the real thing.

My blues were a big hit at the 'con and everyone loved it, even (gasp) actual military veterans. Not one person I met there misunderstood what I was trying to do. The Alphas fit in perfectly at the Manticon military balls, royal courts, and a formal wedding that happened at the last one.

Manticon isn't happening in my area anymore, but if I do travel to another military-themed 'con and there is an appropriate event for it, I'll wear my Alphas with pride. The only change I plan to make is reducing the amount of "bling" - sometimes, less is more.

Sometimes folks who don't know any better assume any uniform is a real uniform - if they do, it's on us to point out to them that it's just a costume.

Say it with me: "Thank you, but this is actually a costume from [or inspired by] the movie Aliens."

I will say again that there is a HUGE difference between wearing a costume representing a FICTIONAL military organization (whether it be USCM, RMN, UNIT, Empire, or any other) at a sci-fi convention and wearing a REAL military uniform out in public and misrepresenting yourself as a veteran.

Anyone who can't separate these two things is likely looking for a fight and you won't be able to win them over.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:42 pm 
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Erik_MAA wrote:
Anyone who can't separate these two things is likely looking for a fight and you won't be able to win them over.


I think that indeed is often the crux of the matter.

There has been some kickback in the past from certain quarters (by no means by all Marines, but a few) over the very idea of wearing anything which is "USMC issue". Personally I find that to be utterly
ludicrous. Once any identifying insignia have been taken off these items are then merely coloured shirts/trousers/&c.

With regards the dress blues for example - minus the USMC buttons it's just a tailored tunic. Contrary to some opinions the USMC doesn't own the worldwide lifetime patent on high collar black tunics; but there are those who are simply unwilling to listen.
If someone in the UK wanted to make a set of dress blues for example they might start with a British Army No 1 or a Royal Marines blues tunic and a white topped RM SD hat (or even an RAFP white topped hat) and by the end of it someone, somewhere would be loudly telling them that they're a retired US Marine and how dare they impersonate THEIR dress uniform...

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:22 pm 
Miscreant and Foukérre
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Thanks, guys - Those last couple of posts pretty much sum up my feelings on the matter.

And yeah - If someone's looking for a fight, they'll find an excuse... All we can do is to try to de-escalate and if necessary, deny them the ability to start one.

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