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 Post subject: The Pulse Rifle
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 4:05 pm 
Spellbinder99 wrote on 10/05/00:

Sc-Fi&Fantasy FX #48-Questions?
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I finally got my copy of #48 by asking for a new one from subscriptions, which arrived, then one week later another turned up! What ya gonna do?
Anyway, the pictures of the last real Pulse Rifle from pages 36-41 in the article "Arming the Corps" for me raise a few questions while answering a few others. Armourer, you may be able to answer these having handled the item
So, here we go......

In the double page spread on pages 36-36 and the picture on page 40, it is obvious the pistol grip is black painted wood. Were the original pistol grips cut down and re-shaped from the Thompson pistol grip? If so, could you make an accurate one for a P.R. from a real M1A1 pistol grip? I figure if you are going to spend $350-$400 on a de-acc Thompson it would be nice to use at least one piece of the original woodwork....

I have always wondered what the black ribbed rectangle either side of the magazine at the base where. The P.R. has a functioning mag release catch so I discounted them as mag retainers, in the P.R. manual they are described on page 1-5, item O as a a magazine buffer. In SF&FFX#48 page 48 the smaller black and white picture of the magazine shows a small slot along the top lip of the magazine butt, corresponding with the position of the buffers.This would seem to indicate to me that the mag clips in to the buffers when fully engaged. To do this they would have to be fastened at the top edge so as to allow them to spring out then engage as the magazine is pushed home. True or false?

On page 39 the 10mm barrel has what appers to be two flats machined on the sides and a hexagonal rather than round bore. Would this be the "choke", refered to in the article text, fitted to the weapon to allow it to blanc fire? If replicating the hero Pulse Rifle as many of us want to do, would it be appropriate to include these features? I am assuming the flats are to put a spanner on and unscrew the choke if it was needed to be changed or removed.
Interestingly, the ONE thing this horrendously innaccurate Terran Trader P.R. kit I am working with going for it is the end of the resin 10mm barrel is moulded with this hexagonal feature.

Each side of the magazine, in line with the rear edge of the buffer is a row of three flush pop-rivets going up. This can be seen on pages 37,40 and 41. Was there a guide fitted inside the magazine housing to ease inserting a magazine into the rifle?

Is the two halves of the shroud held together with cap-headed allen screws? the close up on page 40 would seem to say yes.

In Phil Steinschneiders' Props Homepage, the sections on building the S.D. P.R. would have you removing the remington trigger guard entirely. The BAPTY photos' and the pics in issue 48 clearly show at least a visible part of the forward trigger guard still fitted. Which would be correct?

Finally, all the new shoulder stocks I have seen are entirely hollow,basically flat metal bent into a "U" section yet the overall picture of the P.R. on pages36-37 shows a horizontal cross piece in the crook of the l-shaped stock. Just a piece to add to the metal stock? It would add a certain amount of torsional strength in my opinion.

Sorry if this does not make a lot of sense without the pictures in front of you. I just thought having the answers would allow you to add some interesting details to a completed Pulse Rifle.....
Thanks for reading, please post your opinions.
Tony


Spellbinder99

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Armourer wrote on 10/05/00:

finally got my copy of #48 by asking for a new one from subscriptions, which arrived, then one week later another turned up! What ya gonna do?

Grrr..I’ll have a word with the editor

Anyway, the pictures of the last real Pulse Rifle from pages 36-41 in the article "Arming the Corps" for me raise a few questions while answering a few others. Armourer, you may be able to answer these having handled the item
So, here we go......

In the double page spread on pages 36-36 and the picture on page 40, it is obvious the pistol grip is black painted wood. Were the original pistol grips cut down and re-shaped from the Thompson pistol grip? If so, could you make an accurate one for a P.R. from a real M1A1 pistol grip? I figure if you are going to spend $350-$400 on a de-acc Thompson it would be nice to use at least one piece of the original woodwork....

Hi Tony,

Yes, the pistol grip is the original M1A1 wood grip simply sanded, grooved and painted.

I have always wondered what the black ribbed rectangle either side of the magazine at the base where. The P.R. has a functioning mag release catch so I discounted them as mag retainers, in the P.R. manual they are described on page 1-5, item O as a magazine buffer.

In SF&FFX#48 page 48 the smaller black and white picture of the magazine shows a small slot along the top lip of the magazine butt, corresponding with the position of the buffers.This would seem to indicate to me that the mag clips in to the buffers when fully engaged. To do this they would have to be fastened at the top edge so as to allow them to spring out then engage as the magazine is pushed home. True or false?

They don’t actually spring out, but they do provide an extra lock for when the magazine is in place. They also help to keep both sides of the shroud locked together when the gun is under stress from firing.

On page 39 the 10mm barrel has what appers to be two flats machined on the sides and a hexagonal rather than round bore. Would this be the "choke", refered to in the article text, fitted to the weapon to allow it to blanc fire?

If replicating the hero Pulse Rifle as many of us want to do, would it be appropriate to include these features? I am assuming the flats are to put a spanner on and unscrew the choke if it was needed to be changed or removed.

Yes, this allows the blank firing attachment/ choke to be remove at the end of the day for cleaning. That is removing powder build up, and potential blockages such as shattered crimping and pieces of cartridge case, which could pose a danger.

Interestingly, the ONE thing this horrendously innaccurate Terran Trader P.R. kit I am working with going for it is the end of the resin 10mm barrel is moulded with this hexagonal feature.

One thing you’ve got to remember is that the TT kit was the second Pulse on the market in the early 90’s. The first kit (Science Shop? Someone tell me if I’m wrong) was a rather ropy vac form job. Everybody raved about the TT kit when it first appeared. Things have certainly moved on since then.

Each side of the magazine, in line with the rear edge of the buffer is a row of three flush pop-rivets going up. This can be seen on pages 37,40 and 41. Was there a guide fitted inside the magazine housing to ease inserting a magazine into the rifle?


For anyone that has handled a Thompson M1A1, you will know that in order to load a standard 20 or 30 round magazine, you have to feed the magazine’s rib into the trigger frame’s groove correctly, whilst engaging the mag release at the same time.

I think the main reason for this guide addition was to provide a buffer to make it easier for the actor to load the magazine into the magazine well, quickly and efficiently, rather than faffing about for half an hour with it.

With the Thompson being a first gen. SMG design, this is one part of its design that came into question in mid WW2, and saw it replaced with IMHO, the inferior M3 grease gun. However with practice, loading the M1A1 without problems becomes second nature.

Is the two halves of the shroud held together with cap-headed allen screws? the close up on page 40 would seem to say yes.

Yes, Tony, you eagle eye you!

One of the exciting jobs that an armourer has to do at the end of each day’s shoot, usually when everyone else has buggered off home, is to strip down a clad weapon into its respective separate weapons, and then fieldstrip them, inspect and clean them for the next day. Allen/ hex screws allow quick access to the weapons on set, especially should a problem occur during filming.

In Phil Steinschneiders' Props Homepage, the sections on building the S.D. P.R. would have you removing the remington trigger guard entirely. The BAPTY photos' and the pics in issue 48 clearly show at least a visible part of the forward trigger guard still fitted. Which would be correct?

The Pulse Rifle featured in #48 is the last dual unit practical Pulse Rifle in existence. That is to say, both the M1A1 and Remi are fully working weapons. I was told that the P.R’s had been reconditioned for use in Alien3, as one might expect, so the Remi could have been replaced sometime in the 1990’s. Hence the trigger guard has not been removed, it’s possible that Bapty's guys thought that it was not worth it, as the Remi could have been returned to it’s original condition when the film wrapped. As we now know, this was not the case though.

I have to be honest, while Harry was drooling over the Pulse, I was occupied with a H&K G36 assault rifle and then a WW1 Bergman MP18 smg (with the original Parabellum Luger snail drum magazine….#swoon#) caught my attention.

I would agree with Phil and the SD guys that the original units had the Remi trigger guard removed completely. I will look into this matter further and ask Simon Atherton when I next see him. He’s pretty much responsible for the PR as we know it.

As to which would be correct…mmm…I think Harry Harris would agree with me on this one when I say that there were so many different variants built for the movie (dual units, shotgun only, M1A1 only, 10 hole vent shroud, 8 hole vent shroud, stunt etc), that I couldn’t really say which would be correct. Nor do I think I am in a position to make such a judgement.


The main point I’d like to bring up here is that the original Bapty/ Simon Atherton/ Pinewood 85-86 Pulse Rifles do look quite ropy in the flesh. You can’t really compare a Bapty original, built under pressure and a set deadline, to the SD version, which has been researched and built over a couple of years and has been a labour of love. Steve of SD Studios has also managed to incorporate all of the working features of the various Bapty units into the SD version.

I am myself, going to try and get my rifle as close to the original dual unit as possible, although I would like it be as cosmetically pleasing as the SD version.

Finally, all the new shoulder stocks I have seen are entirely hollow,basically flat metal bent into a "U" section yet the overall picture of the P.R. on pages36-37 shows a horizontal cross piece in the crook of the l-shaped stock. Just a piece to add to the metal stock? It would add a certain amount of torsional strength in my opinion.

Harry and I actually commented on this at Bapty. According to Andy Fletcher this was purely to lock the stock rigidly in the extended position so it could be hung on the ‘special weapons’ wall rack. (other weapons on this wall included a Walther 2000 sniper rifle, a number of WW1 Mg’s with mounts for Bi-planes and rifles chambered for unusual calibres) I would assume that the stock’s click/lock is not as reliable as it once was. The last thing you want is something of that weight falling onto the floor.

Sorry if this does not make a lot of sense without the pictures in front of you. I just thought having the answers would allow you to add some interesting details to a completed Pulse Rifle.....Thanks for reading, please post your opinions.
Tony

Not at all, I hope some of this helps. Sorry about the grammar, puntuation etc, this is being written at 3.00 in the morning.

Geoff - Armourer


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Spellbinder99 wrote on 10/05/00:

Thanks Geoff, none of this was intended as critiscism of anyones work, I just like to investigate details like that for my own satisfaction. That, and working contract out here in the Middle East I have WAY too much time to spend staring at such pictures.

As for the condition of the P.R. at BAPTY, well you can tell it has been ridden hard and put away wet. The stress cracks in the aluminium shroud and the thick layer of black paint over the original green point to that.

As an aircraft engineer, I can appreciate the reasoning behind the allen screws, nothing pisses you off more than a phillips head stripping at the wrong time. Plus the button headed allen screws just look much nicer.....

Oh, and the problem with delivery was ENTIRELY down to the local Postal Service here where I am working. Seeing as it will cost me more than the magazine is worth to return it, I am sending it to one of our North American board members who could not get it locally.....

I just hope I have not bored the board members with such a long winded post about details......
Now get some sleep! I swear some people here must work on a two hour sleep cycle......

Cheers anyway.
Tony

Spellbinder99

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Bug Stomper said on 10/10/00:

Hi all,

if you study the scene where Hicks explains the functions of the PR to Ripley, you'll that the "10 hole"-version had the front part of the Remington trigger guard intact. Actually you can't see much of the trigger guard but you can see how it bends linking plate (the part that connects the two PR-shells in front of the magazine) outwards.

Hope I could be of some help,
Stefan

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LordVdr wrote on 10/18/00:

I am wanting to build a pulse rifle,........I was thinking of converting an AIRSoft Tommy gun into the pulse rifle, but only if it would acually still be capable of firing ammo.
Now, granted, I'm sure this has been a topic here before, but I missed it. so if the question is redundant, I apologize.

Thanks for the info

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Spellbinder99 wrote on 10/19/00:

From looking at pictures of both the S.D. P.R. and Gary's P.R. it should be doable to incorporate an Airsoft as the core, but they both have a large rectangular block fitted to the front of the upper reciever.
In the S.D. one this acts as the rear mount for the SPAS and Remington, the front mount for the front shroud support block and the rear mounting for the 10mm barrel. I am going to make a wild assumption and say Gary's is the same.
To use an operable Thompson therefore, whether Airsoft or real you woul have to devise an alternate fixing method for the Grenade launcher and the shroud that allows the barrel to pass through.
The Thompson barrel would have to be extended as well in a way that does not affect the projectile and matches the real props length.
In the real functional prop, the rear of the SPAS cage was mounted to the mounting plate for the original M1A1 front hand grip, thus if you duplicate that method you are part way there. Fixing the front of the shroud and extending the barrel....weeeel that'll take some more thinking...
Hope that helps.
Tony

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LordVdr wrote on 10/19/00:

As far as extending the barrel on an AirSoft gun, does anyone make these extensions, or is it something you'd have to have made, or just any barrel would do? Please guys, your input would be greatly appreciated before I go sink $400 into a gun that I'm going to convert.

As far as the SPAS is concerned, if I was converting an AirSoft, I wouldn't care to put a working or AirSoft shotgun at the base. Is there such a thing as a "dumby" casing that could act pretty much like a filler? And if so, would this be easier to use in the conversion?

And, one other question--in the AirSoft tommy, the battery pack is in the stock--WHICH IS REMOVED? How hard would it be to move the battery pack and where would be the most feasible and easily-accessed place on the pulse rifle? The shroud maybe? or under the stock?

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Spellbinder99 wrote on 10/20/00:

Extending the barrel on the Airsoft would depend on what they are made of. If metal, they best bet would be to take the barrel to a machinest, get him to make a threaded extension that is the same diameter as the end of the barrel and then cut off the end and internally thread it to accept the extension. I have to admit, I have never seen an Airsoft so I don't know what they fire for projectiles.
Repositioning the batteries is harder, perhaps there is room in the are to the rear of the bolt. The problem would be access for battery changes or add in an external charge port in an unobtrusive place so you could use ni-cads.....
The area inside the shroud at the rear above the reciever would be good, again use rechargables to save dissasembly for battery changes?
There is room , just needs some fabrication of a battery holder and rerouting of wiring.....but what do I know, I'm just an aircraft engineer, I don't do wires.... .

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Alien0199 wrote on 10/20/00:

You can mount the grenade launcher onto a real Thompson M1 the same way they were mounted in the movie - use the mount for the forward handguard. It protrudes from the receiver.
Gerald S.

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DeanO wrote on 10/20/00:

am working on an airsoft Pulse Rifle. It's on the back burner right now because of other projects but it is coming along nicely. The barrel will need to be extended from that of the original airsoft Thompson but it is easily removable and replaced by a hollow tube. I have not made this part for mine yet but it will be no problem doing so. The battery question is little harder. As you know it goes in to stock so where to put it? I plan to put mine in the SPAS cage. I also have an airsoft Rem. 870 that will not be functional to go inside the SPAS cage. I plan to make the battery from single cells and install them inside the barrel and loading tube of the 870. As I make my airsoft pulse rifle I will be
making extra parts so that I can help out those others who are also trying to make one. If you decide to make a PR from the airsoft Thompson it will definitely be a challenge but I can't imagine a cooler PR than one that fires fully automatically!!
Dean


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DNAShort wrote on 10/22/00:

'Stocks are again being done by S.D. and Gary. Again the S.D. version is the normal version while Gary's is the BAPTY hero version which he is selling as a set with the hero barrel vent.'

What were the differences between these?

Anyone? I think I missed that discussion!

Dan

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Spellbinder99 wrote on 10/22/00:

Dan, I think the only real difference is in the curve of the cutout in the stock that clears the c o c k ing lever on the right hand side of the Thompson.
The BAPTY pictures of the 10 hole/ square prototype seem to show a very sharp radius whereas the other hero props have a gentler, longer curve as seen on the S.D. rifles. Gary's stock seems to be modelled directly on those pictures, specifically the black and white BAPTY photo's of the Thompson with SPAS, Remington and 10 hole/square barrel vent but minus the shroud.
You can clearly see there that the radius is markedly different to the other P.R.'s, especially in the photo's of the last full functional P.R. at BAPTY that has the stock pulled all the way back that were printed in the "Arming the Corps " article in issue 48 of Sci Fi and Fantasy FX.

It was not really a discussion, more an agreement that that was a difference in that particular P.R. As usual the caveat that there were differences between all of the screen used rifles seems to apply, as people have so rightly mentioned before.

As for the differences in the barrel vents, Bughunter posted some brilliant screen caps showing that the 10 hole / square barrel vent was on the P.R. used in a lot of the action and close up sequences.
The stock is not visible in the shots but a little artistic extrapolation from the BAPTY construction photos would indicate that to replicate the ultimate hero P.R. requires modelling these features.
Am I explaining this correctly?
Tony

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When you are out of Pulse Rifles, you are out of Weapons!Edited by: [url=http://pub217.ezboard.com/bthealienslegacy.showUserPublicProfile?gid=spellbinder99>spellbinder99[/url] at: 9/2/03 2:18 am


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 Post subject: Re: The Pulse Rifle
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 1:11 pm 
Factoid:

The last Icons HERO Pulse Rifle to sell on E-bay, went for $3000 US!:shock:

That was back in February of 2001.

Cheers

Tony
When you are out of Pulse Rifles, you are out of Weapons!


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 Post subject: Re: The Pulse Rifle
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 3:33 pm 
GW2Tulsa said on 10/22/00:

Speaking of Clips I found the correct clips for the rifles. They are the 20 round clips instead of the 30. Ends up the 20's area hell of alot harder to find and are more expensive. You can still cut down and modify a 30 round if you need to, but the 20 is the way to go if you can find them...

When you are out of Pulse Rifles, you are out of Weapons!


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 Post subject: Geting a Maruzen M870 (airsoft) to work in PR
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:15 pm 
Rook3 wrote on 02/12/03:


Your first step will be to purchase a MIM Pulse rifle kit for the shroud. You'll also need to source the steel handguard cage from a SPAS 12 shotgun. The resin version that ships with the MIM kit will not hold an M870.

The M870 you will want to purchase will be the "Grip version."

The Shroud on the MIM kit has a recessed spot for the gas tank, however, MIM created a set of custom metal piping to either fill the resevoir or allow the gun to fire.

Further information on this gun is sketchy at best as nobody who has purchased the MIM version has come forward with pictures as to how the thing is assembled.

Regards,

Rook


When you are out of Pulse Rifles, you are out of Weapons!


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 Post subject: Re: Black pipe for airsoft PR's
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:29 pm 
Rook3 wrote on 02/13/03:

if you want to shop your local hardware store yourself,
the stuff is "Black Pipe" do NOT use GALVANISED pipe as the interior diameter is TOO SMALL for the airsoft barrel to fit inside due to the coating on the pipe.

Outer diameter is appx. 1/2" or appx. 14mm.

Inside diameter is appx. 8.5-9mm and is just large enough for a 7-ish MM airsoft barrel to fit without being too snug.

Rook

Team SG-1
www.geocities.com/team_sg_1/


When you are out of Pulse Rifles, you are out of Weapons!


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 Post subject: AirsoftClub PR pictures
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:31 pm 
Neophyl wrote on 01/27/03:

Here you go...
[img]http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sparta/acpulse1.jpg[/img]

[img]http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sparta/acpulse2.jpg[/img]

[img]http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sparta/acpulse3.jpg[/img]

[img]http://homepage.ntlworld.com/sparta/acpulse4.jpg[/img]

that should work even if the images are a little large ;)

Phil
When you are out of Pulse Rifles, you are out of Weapons!


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 Post subject: Shroud colour
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 7:55 pm 
Spellbinder wrote on 03/08/01:

But the correct color is Humbrol Bess Brown......Humbrol code 170.
That is the color pretty much all the USCM equipment was painted in the movie including the P.R., the motion tracker, the tracer unit and flamethrower, among others.
This info came from the people who made the props and I believe from examining the paint on the remaining props.
If you want to see the difference go to Phil Steinschneider's Props Homepage, he has pictures of a Bess Brown painted P.R. and an O.D. green one on the site...
Cheers
Tony

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LRRP wrote on 03/08/01:

Oh, heck. Well at this point I don't think I'm going to try to sand down Gary's rifle and repaint it. If for no other reason than I'm hopeless around sprayed paint.

So the answers would be:

1. Correct is Humbrol 170 Brown Bess (muddy looking brown with greenish tint).

2. (Semi-)Acceptable is US style OD Green.

3. Alien3 style appears to be gloss black. This might be a civilian security model. I was never sure if those guys were supposed to be Marines or WY security troops.

LRRP

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Harry Harris wrote on 03/08/01:

I'd go with semi-gloss black at most with the Alien³ Pulse Rifle shrouds, the black ABS definitely isn't gloss.

Regards,

Harry Harris

When you are out of Pulse Rifles, you are out of Weapons!


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 Post subject: Thompson/ PR dimensions.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:00 pm 
TLGNNR wrote on 10/19/00:

Ok Jon, here's what I came up with.

IIIII /\
IIIII 24.4 MM
IIIII \/
IIIIIIIII
IIIIIIIII
|< >| 6.86 MM

The inside corner has a .1875" radius.

Also, I was unsure where you wanted the thickness measurement as it steps along it's length. That's why I took a measurement from the top of the reciever.

A side profile of it looks like this:

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
IIIII

The thickest part is where the magazine attaches, it's 12.2MM thick for 9.4 MM of length. The next step is 9.7MM thick for 30.4 MM of length. The third step is 3.3MM thick for 195.3 MM of length, measured from the start of it to the forward edge of the 45 degree angle corners cut on the back of the reciever.


I hope this helps your conversion efforts, I too concidered attempting to convert my 1927A1 to make it suitable for a pulse rifle. After finding a couple of drum magazines for it(they are rare here and two of them are worth more than the firearm is), I decided to keep it original and acquire a new M1A1 for pulserifle construction.

11/08/00

Preliminary data:

Barrel length: 12"/305MM (this is from a M1A1 army TM, mine is 16"/405mm to meet federal law.)

Barrel Diameter:.9825"/24.95MM for 6"/152.4MM
Barrel tapers from .9825"/24.95MM down to .75"/19.05MM in 2"/50.8mm of length.
Barrel tapers from the step to the end of barrel, it's .7"/17.8MM at 12" from front of reciever, and .66"/16.75MM at 15.34"/391.16MM from front of reciever.
Barrel has a .75"/19.05MM diameter band at muzzle end to mount front sight. The sight band is .66"/16.75MM long, from end of taper to top of muzzle crown. Actual sight ring is .466"/11.85MM long, there's a .16"/4.08MM long radius from end of barrel taper out to the edge of sight band.

Upper Reciever is 1.075"/27.3MM wide for 1.365"/34.67MM from the front edge. It steps out to 1.3"/33.02MM for 11.5"/292.1MM. Overall length is 13.25"/342.9MM. The flanges on the upper reciever where it meets the lower reciever are 1.815"/46.11MM wide. These run from the magazine well to the rear for 9.25"/227.9MM.
Upper reciever height is 1.437"/36.5MM

The rear of the upper reciever has 45 degree cuts running from top to bottom. These cuts measure .25"/6.37MM in horizontal length. the cuts have a face width of .375"/9.52MM at the top,and .75"/19.06MM to the outside of the mating flange. The corner cuts leave the rear end of the reciever .75"/19.06MM wide.

The block on the lower reciever behind the grip is quite complex. Easy to get dimensions are:
Width of lower where grip attaches: 1.018"/25.83MM]
Width of rail where rear stock attaches: .75"/19.06MM
Depth of cut from round surface behind grip to the bottom of the notch: .24"/6.1MM
Length of mounting block from notch behind grip to start of bottom 45 degree face: 3.09"/78.46MM
Height of buttstock mounting block: 3.86"/9.8MM
Diameter of round projection behind notch: .63"/16MM
Height of round projection: .383"/9.74MM
Center of round projection to notch behind grip 1"/25.4MM
Distance between stock mounting holes: 2"/50.8MM
Length of rear 45 degree cut on stock mounting rail: .43"/10.92MM
Length of 45 degree cut face: .58"/14.74MM


OK these should keep you guys busy for awhile, more will follow as time permits. Anything specific just post it here and I'll check it out.

Butch...
When you are out of Pulse Rifles, you are out of Weapons!


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 Post subject: Modifying the Icons PR
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:54 pm 
FiveByFiveRW wrote on 03/05/03:

Is is possible to modify an ICONS PR so that I could install Hype's soundboard, counter, and muzzle flash? Could I add on the metal stock, vent, and barrel?

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spellbinder99 wrote on 03/05/03:

Short answer.....no.

Longer answer....hell no...

Explanitory even longer answer.......Maybe, but the whole thing is one solid cast lump of resin. No moving or seperate parts unless you scored one of the few remaining hero versions, but your chance of a lottery win is better than that, and they are TRULY a collectable.

You could only do that by cutting it in pieces, hollowing it out and then trying to patch and paint it all back together. The basic result would be to lose the Icons collectability after that. Not an issue if you got one cheap, but you would have little of the original left after that.

Basically it would be easier to make a working one from scratch and keep an Icons as a wall hanger.

Cheers

Tony

When you are out of Pulse Rifles, you are out of Weapons!


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 Post subject: A Real PR? The legalities
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:38 am 
TLGNNR said on 10/19/00 :

I'll chime in with what I know, to construct a "proper" pulse rifle would cost major $$$ as it's currently illegal to convert semi-auto weapons to full auto. The prices for existing full-auto weapons has gone through the roof since the law was changed back in 1989. For example, a Browning .50 caliber that was worth $2000 in '88 is worth about $10000 today.

There is a bit of confusion about the $1000 a year Special Occupational Taxpayer (SOT) license in regards to Class III weapons. Two SOT holders can transfer class III weapons between each other without the $200 tax stamp, but a non-SOT holder will still have to pay the tax to take possesion of a class III weapon from a SOT holder.

Going the semi-auto route, you can purchase a semi-auto M1A1 Thompson here in the states for about $900. With BATF approval and $200 for a class III tax stamp, you can legally go to the 12.25" barrel. The tradeoff is it is concidered a class III weapon and you then face all the hassles of possesing one. The 870 Shotgun is similar, BATF approval and $200 and you can own one of those as well. In the case of a pulserifle, you'd still $400 in tax as the BATF conciders it two seperate weapons.

The one hitch in the process is you have to get approval from the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (Typically the Sherrif)for the county in which you reside. This can be a huge stumbling block, even if it's legal in your state to own class III stuff and the BATF approves your application, if the CLEO won't sign off on it you can't take possesion of the weapon or convert one you already own.

I'm currently researching how I can build a functional semi-auto pulserifle without having to deal with owning a class III weapon. The M1A1 doesn't seem to be much of a problem, and I don't think an extra 4" of barrel length will mess up the looks too badly. (maybe a 16 hole barrel shroud will hide it.)

The 870 is going to be tougher, as it needs 18" of barrel to be legal and it mounts in front of the Thompson mag well. The best solution I can come up with is to cut a pair of SPAS 12 cages and weld parts of them together to make one long enough to fit under the 16" barreled Thompson. I figure I'll shorten the 870 magazine tube to fit inside the cage, and let the extra barrel length stick out past the SPAS cage end cap to keep it legal. I do plan on making a dummy 870 barrel that's short enough to look correct while being blocked to keep it from chambering shells so it's legal for display purposes.

I plan on making an aluminium shroud, and eliminating the counter ala the existing Bapty Hero pulserifle.

Butch...

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alien0199 said on 10/19/00 :

That's the thing TLGNNR. His were made using semi-auto Thompson M1s. You had to pay a $200 tax for the Short Barreled Rifle stamp, and I don't think It had a working shotgun pump. If you're 21 or older, you can contact the BATF if you want to make your Pulse Rifle the proper length. Just tell them you'd like to convert a carbine to a shorter than 16" rifle. I'm actually going to do this in about a year or so. If you are going to do it, remember, the plastic shrouds would start to melt if you went through a whole magazine. You'd have to use carbon fiber or aluminum for a shroud then.

Gerald S.

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alien0199 said on 10/19/00:

Do the same thing with the shotgun too. Thing is, It'd have a lot of kick. Make sure you have it mounted extremely well.

Gerald S.

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Armourer
10/19/00 :

Rather than muck around with Class 3 paperwork or the 16 1/2 inch smooth barrelled semi 1927-M1 (semi M1A1 lookalike), I thought that this might be useful to those of you who want a practical Pulse Rifle.
Just to point out folks that Auto Ordnance haven't made the 1927-M1 over the last few years, and I don't think that the new owners of Thompson, Kahr Arms, have any plans to either. That also goes for the full auto M1, that they produced.

Try them here anyway: www.auto-ordnance.com
Kahr Arms: P.O. Box 220, Blauvelt, NY 10913
Sales & Marketing: 914-353-7770 / Fax: 914-353-7833 / E-mail: kahrhq@compuserve.com
Customer Service: 508-791-6375 / E-mail: kahrcs1@aol.com

Philadelphia Ordnance Inc. were offering a 4130 steel Thompson M1A1 upper receiver, just to point out guys that you could make a BATF legal semi-auto blankfirer, if you're not going to shoot ball. As they count as non-firearms, this cuts out all the paperwork that the Class 3 brings, here's the info:

Features of Phila. Ordnance 80% M1/M1A1 Thompson Submachine Gun

Machined from 4130 aircraft quality steel (higher quality and strength than originally used)
100% machined exterior, all surfaces and contours are fully machined
Accepts original M1 or M1A1 Thompson parts
Threaded for barrel and slotted for grip mount
Fully machined ejection port, magazine well and feed ramp
trigger frame rails machined
ejector hole drilled and threaded
Buffer pilot and frame latch hole drilled and reamed
cocking handle slot machined
Rear sight mounting holes spotted
Drawings included
Price $245.00
add $20.00 for Military Blue or Parkerized
Finish include $8.00 for freight and insurance

It is not legal to finish this receiver into a machine gun without the proper license. You can make a non-firearm (DEWAT, blank gun). You do not need to be a licensed manufacturer to make a legal type (semi-auto, single shot) firearm for your own use as long as it is not for resale. Many people use this receiver to make a semi-auto using existing semi-auto spare parts as this receiver, being made from 4130 aircraft quality steel is much stronger and tougher than the semi-auto receivers currently available. Contact ATF for guidelines on the manufacture of legal semi-autos rifles or blank firing devices.

If you are planning on going the Class 3 route, here is some info that might help. Remember it is your right as a American citizen to own a full auto weapon in the US, providing you are sensible, sane, law abiding and live in a state that permits ownership, this can be done. I would, however, like to point out that this is only worth pursuing if you have adequate experience with firearms and I have a strong feeling that you won’t be able to show it off at any conventions.

Impact Tactical Weapon Systems is one company that deals in NFA weapons. This is what they have to say about how you can legally own a machine gun:

Can I Legally Own A Machine Gun? One Word Answer: ABSOLUTELY!
It is a common misconception that machine guns cannot be owned by law-abiding citizens. This comes from the creation of a variety of confusing laws that have made purchasing a full-auto gun more difficult than purchasing a "normal" gun. But, you can comply with the law and own a machine gun.

First a little history: In May of 1986, certain laws went into effect that made it illegal for 'civilians' to own fully automatic firearms that were manufactured AFTER THAT DATE. Most fully automatic weapons manufactured and registered BEFORE MAY, 1996, MAY BE OWNED BY AND SOLD TO INDIVIDUALS. The full-auto guns that may be owned by individuals are called 'transferable'. Some states DO NOT allow machine gun ownership at all, no matter when the gun was made, but most states do.

To purchase a transferable machine gun, you must meet certain requirements (generally the same as when you purchase another gun), fill out special paperwork (called a 'form 4'), and pay a $200, one-time, transfer tax. Every time a machine gun is transferred, the $200 tax must be paid-- usually by the purchaser. The steps to take to purchase a transferable machine gun are:

Find a dealer locally who can assist you in all phases of the transfer. This should go beyond helping you fill out the paperwork: they should help you locate the gun if it isn't in stock and allow you to shoot the gun while your paperwork is being processed by the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms). It will usually take 4-6 weeks for the dealer to get the gun from another dealer if they don't already have it in stock (due to BATF paperwork delays).

Get your fingerprints (either by a police dept. or by a qualified fingerprinter, two imprints are needed) and two passport sized pictures taken. These will be used to perform a comprehensive criminal background check on you.

Have your local dealer help you fill out an "Application for Tax Paid Transfer And Registration Of Firearm" for, known as a "form 4".

You must have the signature of the Chief Law Enforcement (CLEO) officer that has jurisdiction over the municipality in which you live on the form 4. This could be the City Chief or the County Sheriff, for example. This is usually not a problem-- in machine gun friendly states.

The form 4, CLEO signature, 2 fingerprint cards, 2 pictures, and a $200 check (your one-time transfer tax) must all be mailed to the BATF and an approved tax stamp returned before you may take possession of the gun. This may take anywhere from 2 to 5 months.

Although it may seem complicated, Impact say that they will be happy to help you through every step in the process. They have transferable guns in stock, and if they don't have it, they can tap into a network of dealers in other states to find it for you.

If you are genuinely interested, then see their website for more details: www.impactguns.com

Also try Big Jim's Machinegun Sanctuary, he has boards that carry Class 3 want and for sale ads...
Hope some of this is useful.

regards - Armourer

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TLGNNR said on 10/19/00:

I forgot to mention that to be legal anyone making a semi-auto pulse rifle will probably have to fix the buttstock so that it can't move. We might get away with it since the Thompson doesn't have a flash hider, and I don't think the detachable magazine counts as one of the two allowable features. Since they are not imported weapons we might have a bit of leeway there as well, I'll have to research it a bit more. One of the nice things about using the 16" barrel is the Thompson without a buttstock at all already meets most states overall length requirements, so even if it turns out that a collapsable stock isn't legal fixing it in the fully retracted position would be.

I've concidered going the SBR/SBS route, and even sticking with 16" Thompson I'm still concidering doing the BATF paperwork to get a legal short barreled shotgun for the project. Scattergun Technologies does conversions to the 870 all the time for SWAT entry weapons. The tradeoff is the short barreled rifle and/or short barreled shotgun will be concidered a class III weapon even if it's not full auto and there are restrictions applicable that make owning one a hassle. I'm just not willing to put up with the BS to own a dolled up semi-auto Thompson when I can own the same weapon with a few more inches of barrel with no restrictions.

Armorer, the "non-gun" route sounds interesting, and if I didn't already have a semi-auto M1A1 I might be tempted to go that route. I do plan on acquiring a Class III weapon one of these days, but it'll have to make bigger holes and be belt-fed to make it worth the trouble. I'm also hoping we can get some of the draconian legislation regarding them removed in the future, and you can rest assured anyone who asks for my vote has been clearly informed of my positions on the issue.

Butch...


When you are out of Pulse Rifles, you are out of Weapons!


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone have the Pulse Rifle reed relay wiring diagram?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:14 pm 
Rook 3 wrote on 5/3/03 :

This was a graphic I "think" created by Neophyl showing how to connect a PR shot counter to an airsoft gun motor via a reed relay switch.

What it does is causes the shot counter to count down while the airsoft gun is firing, and not at any other time.

I looked for the original post already, but it appears to have fallen off the board.

Any help appreciated.

Rook

Visit Rook's Castle, I dare you!

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uscmCorps said on 5/4/03:

Is this what you're looking for?

photos.yahoo.com/bc/anima...%26.view=t

-Alex

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Rook 3 said on 5/5/03 :

I ordered a buch of stuff from Digikey (1-800-344-4539) at the same time and I think they charge a service fee for orders under $25.00, but what I ordered (and used in my PR) is:

ITEM #: HE209-ND
DESCRIPTION: Relay Reed SIP SPST W/Diode 12
UNIT COST: $2.31 each

I'll have a picture of the item up on my web site in the tutorials section later tonight.

Rook

Visit Rook's Castle, I dare you!




When you are out of Pulse Rifles, you are out of Weapons!


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 Post subject: Re: The Aliens War PR
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:46 pm 
Harry Harris wrote on 4/26/01:

Hi Wayne,

As far as I can remember I don't think the Alien War Pulse Rifles were Brown Bess as it wasn't common knowledge that this was the paint used for most of the Aliens props etc.

The first ones were fairly accurate, the 'Thompson' section and it's barrel was aluminium with a vacuum formed grenade launcher section and shroud (Which I think was black ABS).

Here are a couple of images of the Alien War rifle. (Thanks Tony!)

Image

Image

Regards,

Harry Harris

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Wayne Ryder wrote on 04/30/01:

Re the Alien War PRs:
Yep, the one I had a heft of was pretty knackered. Definitely metal shroud, unless I'm going senile in my old age. What paint remained didn't look green, so based on recent info, I surmised it must've been BB.
Interestingly, the guy I was speaking to said he could put me in touch with the person who made them, but warned me they were expensive. That is, he said person, not company.
So maybe there were more versions of the rifle used than any of us know.

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Birdie15 wrote on 4/30/01 :


I was wondering if anyone (you there, Harry?)could answer a couple of questions about Alien War.

Talking about the PR's used has really roused my interest. Are there any photos in existence that show the difference between the MkI and MII rifles? In those phototos that Harry put up, were the rifles waiting to have the barrels sawn, or were they like that because of the electronics? Did the pumps work, and how many rifles were used in the show?

I also wondered if anyone made an extensive photographic record of the exhibits in the museum? In particular, it's always been difficult finding decent reference material on the incinerator, this would have been a terrific opportunity to photograph it. Likewise, Bishop's laptop.

Or am I just dreamin'.....?

Birdie
Birdie@cwcom.net

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Harry Harris wrote on 4/30/01 :


Wayne,

That’s interesting; can you remember any more about your AW visit? I think the metal shrouded rifles must have been the chunkier ‘Mk II’ rifles.


Birdie,

I don’t have any images of the Mk II Alien War PR but here’s a photo of the MK I, it looks to be on it’s last legs though judging from all the tape over it etc.


Image



(Apologies for the poor image quality, it was scanned from a colour photocopy of the original photograph). Note the strobe attached to the front of the barrel, this was protected by a metal tube with slots cut along it’s length. When viewed in the dark with a little smoke this gave a very convincing impression of muzzle flash.

I think the long barrels on my photos of the Alien War rifles on page 1 were to be cut down; the images were captured from videotape so the resolution isn’t too good I’m afraid.

The pumps didn’t work. The grenade launcher and pump grip was vacuum formed as one piece in two halves (if that makes sense!), which housed the SoundFire electronics.

I really regret not taking more photographs of the museum etc. but I left just before Alien War opened. The museum didn’t open for a few months after that and I think my freelance work was starting to pick up then and I didn’t get much chance to visit again.

I certainly learned my lesson; nowadays if I see a piece I always try to take as many photographs as possible!

Lastly, to bring this thread back to topic I noticed that the eBay Pulse Rifle auction has now closed with a price of $2025.00!

Regards,

Harry Harris

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Wayne Ryder wrote on 5/1/01 :

Harry:

This could probably warrant a new thread.
I went a couple of times to the AW attraction, and even auditioned for a job there. I'll hunt for photos, but to share a small private joke, you KNOW how bad I am at providing them.
The PRs I spoke to the staff about didn't carry any electronics, far as I remember. If the one I looked at had any, they weren't working. Think the pump-grip slid back & forth, but that's it.
I'm sure it wasn't the one in the pic you supplied. Nor was it the 'Blue Peter' looking one in the attraction's later days.
Damn, I'm so sure they were all-metal. The two things I recall most strongly about them was the fact that they were like pressed or stamped metal (the shroud being more rounded than it should be), and they were scuffed & scratched, and the wrong colour. Pump-grip was black, possibly a real SPAS part.
I'm going to shut up for a while now, in case I'm talking out of my bung-hoolio.

When you are out of Pulse Rifles, you are out of Weapons!


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 Post subject: Marui Thompson M1A1, GOOD CHOICE ??
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:47 pm 
Sabre wrote on 03/13/03:

Does anyone know if this is a accurate, well built, replica
to build a PR on ??

Intend to use real parts attached to it, SPAS gage,
870 shotgun internals, etc. Being correct dimensions and heavy enough metal is important to me.

Any comments would be very much appreciated

Thanks for you time

------------------------------------------------------------

Rook 3 wrote on 03/13/03:

The only Thompson more accurate was used in WWII.

But then, maybe I'm a little biased.

Depending on what you want out of your Pulse Rifle, IE: you want it to shoot _something_, then yes, the Marui Thompson is very accurate.

If you wast steel, but not shooting anything, there's people who do solid receivers. And last but not least, there's at least one board person who makes resin castings of real Thompson parts.

Again, it depends on what you want out of the PR, and how much your checkbook says you can have.

Heavy enough metal? Well, the Thompson by itself weighs 7.5lbs. My full completed pulse rifle weights at least 12-15lbs.

Rook

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Sabre wrote on 03/14/03:

Thanks for the info.
Will real Thompson parts slide onto the reciever ?
meaning will a real grip assy slide into this reciever correctly ?

My understaning is that the bottom grip assy on the this airsoft is plastic.

can a metal block be welded onto the front of the reciever as the SD studios guns did. Then attach the Spas gage to the block and so forth ??

Thank you for your time

Rook 3 wrote on 03/14/03

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Will real Thompson parts slide onto the reciever ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Which parts specifically?


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
meaning will a real grip assy slide into this reciever correctly ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Do you mean the whole lower grip assembly? On that one I'd probably have to say no. The pistol grip on the Marui Thompson is what holds the motor required to make the gun fire full-auto.


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My understaning is that the bottom grip assy on the this airsoft is plastic.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



That is correct. They do make an all wood kit for the airsoft Thompson, but it's expensive, and all you'll be using is the pistol grip so it will largely be a waste of money. The plastic of the lower grip "body" is not noticeable as plastic when combined with the upper receiver which is ALL metal. And as I said in a previous thread, the gun weighs 7.5 lbs! The heaviest airsoft gun made except for things like the PSG-1 and the M60/249 SAW...


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
can a metal block be welded onto the front of the reciever as the SD studios guns did. Then attach the Spas gage to the block and so forth ??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Doubtful. The barrel front end is an aluminum material I believe. Plus, if you weld a solid block to the front of the receiver, you won't be able to fire the gun.

Honestly, it sounds like you want an SD style kit. Check out Phil's web page for information and parts

When you are out of Pulse Rifles, you are out of Weapons!


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 Post subject: Upgrading an airsoft PR
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:53 pm 
Rook 3 wrote on 03/11/03:

When I built my airsoft PR, I upgraded the mech box to shoot hotter with an upgraded spring. However, when I did so, I decreased the rate of fire noticeably. Well, because of another project gun (a basket case MP5) I decided to pull the metal bushings out and install bearings in the gun.

After getting the bearings installed she now shoots faster than a STOCK Marui Thompson AEG!! It's pretty sweet and it returns my PR to the "Buzz gun" status it had in the movies.

Just wanted to share.

*EDIT* Some of you know I've had problems with my shot counter resetting after every shot for some time. I thought it was a loose connection so I resoldered the loose wires, and still the problem persisted. I also cut the wiring harness down that runs from the Thompson to the battery, that way I put the battery in backwards, and can charge the battery through the spot where you'd insert the "Grenades" on the GL.
Well, because it's such a tight fit, after changing the wiring layout, I couldn't fit the 2 "AA" battery box for the shot counter back in the gun.

So a couple friends cam over last night and we were messing with airsoft guns in the backyard (that garbage can won't mess with anyone ever again!), and one guy noticed that the counter was counting down just fine, without resetting!

Well, that's wierd since I figured that if it wasn't a loose wire, it had to be a bad microswitch.

Well, I grabbed the battery box, which was hanging loose, and the counter reset. I tapped the battery box with a finger and it reset again! It turns out that the whole darn time, the problem wasn't with poor wiring or a bad switch or any of that, but the vibration of the gun shooting was causing the batteries to lose connection inside the box, resulting in the gun resetting EVERY time it was fired! I swapped out the battery box with a different style, wrapped it with a wire tie and replaced it in the gun. Problem solved and now she works like a million bucks! Well, $2500.00 anyway...

Rook

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Roguestorm1 wrote on 03/11/03:

Rook,

Sounds sweet, Have the part numbers for the spring and the bearings? Where can we order them from? You? Let me know. You the AEG man.

Thanks,
Russell aka Rogue



Rook 3 wrote on 03/12/03:

In the past all I've used have been Systema upgrade products.

Now, from experience, you can do a basic upgrade with only an M100 Spring and high speed bearings. By only using an M100 spring, you increase the FPS of the gun to _about_ 330 FPS. By using an M100 you can still run stock gears in most cases, untill they eventually wear out and bust a tooth, requiring you to buy High Torque gears.

Whenever you add things like more powerful gears, you must know that it does not become a matter of "IF" your gun will fail, but "WHEN" it will fail. The more ugrades you add will result in increased wear, leading to eventual failure. That's the nature of the upgrade game.

The upgrade parts I have in my Pulse Rifle include...

SYS-ZA-06-02 Systema Irregular-Pitch Spring M100 for all AEGs. Cost me about $10.00

SYS-ZA-05-15 Systema High Speed Metal Bushing with Bearing. Cost me about $24.00

SYS-ZS-05-18 Systema Oilless Bushing and Reversal Stop Latch for M1A1 and P90. Cost me about $19.00

I also added a new set of gear shims which only cost like $3.00 at most.

Now you're thinking, why do I need the bushings if you said "bearings?"

The reason is because the Thompson uses a Type 6 mech box. The Type 6 box has 4 round bushings in it stock, and two oddball oblong shaped ones. What you need to do is install the oddball BUSHINGS and the other four spots are filled with BEARINGS.

Cracking a mech box is a tricky business if you've never done it before. Basically you should either: 1) Pay someone to do it or 2) Try it yourself after reading all you can about it.

Another thing you could do, if all you want is the high rate of fire, is leave the stock spring in it and only replace the stock bushings with the bearings/oiless metal bushings. This will leave the gun's stock FPS velocity, but turn it into a heck of a buzzgun.

If anyone wants their gun upgraded (mechbox only), contact me. I also have a "local" parts dealer I go through now that I'm no longer an airsoft retailer.

Any other questions, feel free to post or ask me.

Rook


Rook 3 wrote on 03/15/03:

And just for the number crunchers...
The Stock M1A1 Thompson Airsoft Gun shoots appx. 700-850 rounds per minute.

After installing the bearings I fired 1 standard mag (60 rounds). Total firing time was 3 to 3.5 seconds.

Now, if you run the numbers at 3.5 seconds, that translates out to about 17 rounds/second, or about 1020 rounds/minute.

I'm guessing that before installing the bearings, I was down to about 600-700 rounds/minute.

Buzzzzzz

Rook



When you are out of Pulse Rifles, you are out of Weapons!


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 Post subject: Re: Upgrading an airsoft PR
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 3:33 am 
We'll start uploading pics of the real deal here. More to come:

Pulse Rifle 1

-Willie


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