Well, I have debated on replying to this thread for a while now, but decided maybe I can offer some insight as an "outsider" or sorts.

For some background, I believe I have been a member of this forum for about 2-3 years now, largely a silent observer. On occasion I will mention something, or share an insight. I have been a fan of Aliens since my Dad took me to see it in '86. Because of that, I have adored the United States Colonial Marines.

I found this forum one day cruising USCM related websites. I thought it was very cool - here was a group of Aliens, USCM fans, and some costumed. I had no idea there were people who made BDUs, armor, etc. I joined up, got the "Welcome Marine" and felt good about it.

Over some time, it became very clear there were/are some cliques of sorts, and if you were not in on the jokes, conventions, etc - you were not in the "in crowd" and probably never were going to be. Didn't seem to matter what you say, or did - there was a separation of sorts.

I also noticed a definite sense of superiority from some groups/people. Nothing major, just enough to show itself.

None of this is amazing - its a people thing, and people will do it wherever they congregate. It happens here too, intentional or not. This forum is far better than others.

Lately toes seemed to have been stepped on, feelings hurt, etc. All I can say is get over it. I've buried friends, had bad days, and generally hated the world from time to time. We all have. People here on this board range from genuine assholes to genuinely good people. No big deal, its life.

I know that sounds negative, but it is what it is. I'm glad people are cool enough to air it out here, and life can go on. I'm not going to name names or incidents I remember, as its not that important. But now at least everyone is aware that there are some gripes on occasion, and I think they are legitimate.

For what its worth - I don't think the whole "brotherhood" and "Marines" thing is the problem. Its just a way it manifests itself. I felt welcome on this board, and for the most part always have. There is a tight group here, and that is GREAT!

Carry on Marines.

Trenches has Marines fighting Aliens! That should be coming out soon.

And I just got pitched for a new film that's along the same lines (2 armies on a planet, fighting each other), but no aliens this time.



But it should be fun once the check clears.

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-Spat

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Scott
13

A10/TQ2.0.42142E1

I was going to make a comment about why there were so many "spats" recently, even wrote a long post about it and was about to submit it.

But after re-reading it, I just didn't feel that it added anything to the topic, nor would it end anything. At best, it would just bring up more angst, so I deleted it.

But I am curious as to whom CW Mock considers a "genuine asshole", an who is among the "genuinely good people".

As for the "Cliques", there really aren't any. There are just people who have actually met in "real life" and know each other well, and then there are people who just know each other from the forum. It's not that anyone likes anyone better than anyone else, but that you are more likely to joke around, congregate with, have "in jokes" with, and even agree with people you actually know, than with people you've never met, or only met on rare occasions.

It's human nature to gravitate towards familiarity than towards the unknown.

I personally never really chatted too often with the UK guys on this board, I did, but very casually because I had never met them. Until I went to a con with them in the UK. Now I feel that I can make fun of them and abuse them publicly. Partly because I was made an official member of the UKCM, and partly because I have blackmail video of most of them when they were drunk, and pleasuring Abe in a very uncomfortable place.

So, does that make me part of their clique, or does it make them my friends? And as my friends, it may seem like we're "superior", or part of an "in crowd", but it's just a matter of knowing each other, and being more vocal than some.

I hope that no one on this board thinks that any of us are elitists, because that really couldn't be further from the truth. I personally try to take time and reply to any e-mails from people, answer their questions if I can, and if you come find me at a convention, I'm usually really good at welcoming people into the crew and showing them the ropes and showing them a good time. Or at least I try to.

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-Spat

I don't think there are cliques here. Like Spat says, just groups of people who know people better because they have met in person.

Also, I have no problem with the "Ooorah Marine-ness" around here, but I can see how people who are a little shyer, and less confident to act "in-character", either informally on a forum or in "real-life" at a convention might find it intimidating, esp. since it gives the impression that they are the only person here who doesn't costume or dress as a Marine.

I'm sorry if my Alien-ness has given anyone the impression that I'm anti-marine; I love Marines, they're damn tasty!

Last D*con was the fulfilling of a USCM dream of mine. Oh sure I had tried Marine costuming in the past, but there was no one else to hang out with. And 2007 was my 3rd D*con, the first 2 years I saw the Aliens Legacy members. Saw the table. Saw the Marines in costume, yet I didn't approach. I ASSUMED they were elitists, with the awesome armor, the great weaponry.

I was wrong. Last year I finally manned up, and joined the forum. Met, chatted, and realized that they weren't elitist. Just genuinely awesome guys.

Had it been any different than that, I wouldn't still be here.

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Whoa! So I'm off the boards for a few weeks and I casually drop in to check on you guys and I get hit dead-center with this? What gives?

Did I not leave enough food in the dish?

Did I mistakenly outbid someone at the last second on that Savanna Bronica lighter on eBay?

Did I forget to gas up the APC when I returned it?

Have the skyrocketing gas prices finally driven everyone to the point of insanity?

I surely hope it's not about Paris Hilton and her latest toenail color.



Well said Spat. I don't believe in everything you say or do (especially that Leeloo costume ), but that couldn't have been said any better.

Forums are great for getting people with common interests together -- it's a tool. It serves to keep people in-touch with one another when long distance get-togethers are impractical, few, or far between. It's a basic means of communication which does lack many of the personal experiences seen and felt in the 'real world'. It's very easy for things to be misconstrued or taken out of context here when you aren't familiar with at least some of your audience on a personal level.

Just like most everyone else on their first day on the ready line, I didn't know anyone here, personally or otherwise. It took a few good months of joining in on topics of conversation and contributing to the group before I started getting a good feeling for what the other members were like. Some I gravitated to more quickly than others, just like in the 'real world'.

After about a good 7 or 8 months on the forums, I was feeling very much at home with many of our board members, and was really looking forward to meeting several of them at DragonCon in 2005.

That's when everything changed.

The camaraderie and overall experience of personally meeting everyone was far more than I could have ever expected. Many of the veteran Marines welcomed me with open arms and it really felt like we had known one another much longer than only those few short days. Words alone cannot express the feelings I had for these Marines when the day finally came for all of us to go back home.

Some strong bonds were forged that weekend, and because of that I am proud to call many of you my good friends.

However, in the case of Spat it was a little different. Some scary confirmations had come about regarding a man I had only previously known about from his online stories of mayhem and debauchery. Although I've been wise enough to try and keep my distance from that guy, I think he's alright.

Moral to the story?

Take some time out to get off your ass and get out in the real world and meet some of your fellow Marines. Conventions are a great way to do this, and it seems like every major city has something going on nowadays. You don't have to dress in costume -- but don't be surprised if you quickly begin to regret it. I'm so glad that everyone here encouraged me to slap something together in that final week before DC 2005 -- it was sooo worth it.

If you're more of a homebody or tend to keep to yourself, that's fine. Some people just aren't as social as others. However keep in mind that you are very likely missing out on many of the experiences that are bringing the rest of us closer together. This includes contributing to the forums when relevant or insightful.

What newcomers to our board may view as "cliques" are really just long term bonds that have formed naturally because members have known each other for a measurable length of time. Take that and mix in the occasions where they have gotten to personally meet and hang out with one another and you've got some great friendships formed.

For the most part everyone here is pretty even-keeled and good at heart. We are a very open and accepting group. However, there are always exceptions -- so don't mistake our acceptance for tolerance. If you happen to be a self-centered jerk in real life, then odds are you're gonna be a jerk on our forums -- so please don't waste our time. Simply move along.

To the rest of you, I say welcome to the Aliens Legacy. We're all family here.

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Rick "Ripstick"
A03/TQ3.0.12142E1

Spat, nail, head, done.

SAS

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Alan T. Alien
1st Lt Smith, SA "Sidewinder"
A13/TQ1.4.19720EX CMA
Founder of UKCM 13th Regt. 1st Batt. Freebooters
Founder of Special Armaments Section (Heavy Weapons)
"People don't understand. people like me"

Amen.

Also I think after this Dragoncon, when most of us will have met 'in person', all this stuff about cliques, friction and the like will be long forgotten.

I'm looking forward to spending time with like minded people.

Andy

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A72/TQ6.6.95356E8





"I plan to live forever.........or die trying!"

Yeah, we are gonna have a great time. Looking forward to meeting and/or see you again!

Mike

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There is nothing more impressive than a bloody big Alien wiggling on the end of a sharp stick!

Guys

Just thinking aloud here but do you think it might help the forum if we had a dedicated area for just ‘cannon’ items and discoveries (Like the calculator and helmets threads) and one for ‘none cannon’ fun project type stuff? (Like the long shot / C type uniform projects)

Rick, all I read in that was "Can't wait for Spat to give me a lapdance in his naughty costume at DragonCon this year".

And your wish is my command.

And I think the last thing we need are more areas splitting things up.

Hopefully, once some new found item is made official, it should just be added to the list in the archives under that item. Even if it's a EU item.

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-Spat

I'd be up for this as I had actually considered the same suggestion (must be that great name we share )...

However my only concern is that it may solidify a division amongst the membership that already seems to have existed unseen until now.

If it is about respect- it has to go both ways. If someone recreates a canon object- I will praise them for it. And if someone creates something EU (that is in the spirit of the films) I will give them equal praise.

I do however think the "501st" and "canon-elitist" comments need to stop for the time being. I'm sure they are meant as a friendly jest- but at this point they may not be regarded as such. Just as I feel strongly about being told something EU does the movie a dis-service in some way.

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I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

I can't speak for everyone...

But well the C-type uniform (assuming that is Charlies) ARE Canon and should be treated as such.

And as for me and my Nerfs... I try to keep them in the OT forum as much as possible. Even though I use them with my USCM costume, the design of them are non-canon. Not that its a bad thing.

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Okay my mistake read Dress blues. Just looking to see if I can find a way to bridge the gap John.

It get's my backing Os as I think it is an idea very much worthy of consideration. There is a line between cannon and what is not and for those that are less educated in such things coming here then having a visible means to differentiate between them such as something like seperate forums seems like a good idea.

Like you said yourself OS the focus of what this place was originally about has changed considerably. I for one have little to no interest in things out of the scope of what was shown in the movies but that's just me. There is enough in all these alien films seen on screen to keep me occipied and I dare say I'm not the only one to have that opinion.

By having seperate forums, I'm not sure why that would solidify this percieved 'unseen division' that lies here. People either dig something or they don't. You'll be there till the cows come home trying to get someone interested in something that they're not and to automatically assume that everyone is going to be into EU stuff is quite naive.

However, if people aren't into the 'cannon' things then I would wonder why they are here in the first place .

Good for those that want to expand on the 'real screen' stuff and make up things for themselves. Just because you do doesn't mean everyone else has the desire to jump on board and clap excitedly when it's plastered all over the forum.

If my viewpoint of wishing to see things 'done right' is deemed as elitist then so be it. People can knock the 501st for their attitude at times, but you can't knock them for their dedication to detail and for getting it right. They carry on the legacy of the Star Wars films by doing what they do and by being visually correct and portraying those classic characters as they were seen on the screen to the best of their ability.

They might be somewhat ' extreme' to some in their attention to detail but it's better to be that way with great IP's than go the other way and risk turning it into some Rubies slap it together for 20 bucks halloween costuming club.

To reiterate, the focus of this forum has changed from being all about the films to about USCM costuming and the spin offs from that. Having seperate forums for cannon and EU subjects also gives people the option of looking in whice one(s) they are personally interested in, whilst keeping that division between 'cannon' and EU which I consider is needed here. There are seperate forums for USCM and UKCM things - whats the problem with 'cannon' and 'EU' ?



Chris

I have no problem with a EU forum (isn't that how one also truncates European Union?)...

But I think doing so would create more of a gap. Thinking of the "cultural differences" that keeps cropping up, if you give the EU a "Separate but Equal" area... Then that's something that would step on even more toes.

Why hasn't anyone started a poll about it? It's tough to get a good sampling of this with multiple posts and now they're bleeding into other posts, etc.

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And who decided what is EU and what is not?

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-Spat

Well technically Spat, your armor is EU and not fully canon by the cut of the armor and the black straps instead of OD.

Are we seeing the slippery slope of this now people?

In the words of The Beatles... Let It Be.

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Thanks!

And as was stated in another thread, only the Marines seen in the film are canon. Any other camo pattern, name stencil or armor graffiti is EU.

And most the straps in the film were black, and then painted green. So I'm closer than you think!

And Terry approved of my armor, so that should count.

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-Spat

I'm just making a point, not saying your gear is bad. It's top notch.

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Several long-standing members have contacted me personally, or via webmaster@alienslegacy.com asking for their accounts to be deleted anonymously.

I'm not going to be deleting accounts in a hurry. I have a feeling that every one of these people will eventually regret their decision and want to come back.

PLEASE GUYS, I don't feel strongly about any of the issues that have been argued about but PLEASE sort it out. I'm sick of it.

I think this thread is the very best part of this forum, and why I like it here so much. People have their say, air their problems and they are solved and come to terms with. I deal with so much negativity all day at work its relaxing to come here.

I hope that this stuff doesn't make people want to leave. It makes me want to stay even more. Once this has run its course, I think things will be good again!

I have to admit, the best part of this forum for me is seeing everyones projects and costumes, and the stories of how they made them. Its fun to read the jokes, shoot the crap and have a good time.

I don't costume much - not because of a lack of desire. Funds and time are my biggest enemy. I AM building a costume, slowly but surely. Over time hopefully I'll get more and can drop in on a convention or something. Until then, I'll keep visiting, and laughing at all the mayhem.

Don't change how things are here. It's not a costuming form, its not a canon forum - it is the Aliens Legacy Forum.


I like it.

People want to delete their accounts because we can't decide what counts as Canon and what does not?

Hmmm... what would Darwin say about that?

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-Spat

:) I would guess that he would look at it as a psychologist and realise that people want to do something if it makes them happy, and will want to stop doing something when it makes them unhappy.