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 Post subject: WARDROBE: USCM BDU Comparisons (Fan Made)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:03 am 
Sgt. Munkey
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Okies, from left to right

MAA purchased 2006, 60+ washes
MAA purchased 2008, not sure on washes
HORPAT, 2 washes
SPAT material, 1 wash

Photographs taken around 3pm, cloud cover, so no direct sunlight.

Construction, the MAA 2006 set are made stronger than the 2008 set. Seems that MAA cut corners later on. Aaron's BDU are constructed well. Stitching is larger on Aaron's compared to MAAs.

Colour. Now both later versions of MAAs and Spats 1st gen have a greenish hue. Aaron's don't and are more brown. MAA's 1st Pattern were very brown.

Material. MAA and Spat material have a similar weave. Aaron's varies. Because of the linen, you get bumps or pips on the fabric and after two washes, the colour wore off on these pips.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:26 am 
Miscreant and Foukérre
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Location: Glasgow, Scotland
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I wear Polish Desert right now, because it's hard-wearing and the 'Wall Crew could all afford it at the time.

If it's dirty, or if I'm on my own, I'll wear my MAA 1Pat. It might be slightly off in colour, but the construction is top-notch - Nice thick durable fabric and good stitching.
Later MAA may have been a closer colour, but the construction was "interesting" - And as I mentioned, he really shafted us on the cut. I and a few others gave him the exact RIDICULOUS amount of measurements he asked for ( As his last batch were supposedly tailored for good fit, instead of simple S/M/L/XL ) and the shirt barely reached the waistband of the pants... You can just about tuck it in, but not for long.
Seems that this was a cost-cutting measure - He certainly wasn't happy when I recommended that people add a few inches to the measurement that would solve the problem, claiming that "His measurements, if given correctly, would ensure a good fit."
Clearly not the case.

I'd buy 3Pat if I knew they'd fit me, and replace the silly button fasteners with thread.
I paid extra for "Reinforced stitching for Airsoft" and ripstop material anyway ( There's a long bullshit story connected to THAT, too... )

Will try Spat's when I have the chance, especially given Troon's reviews up here.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:31 am 
Sgt. Munkey
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Location: Acworth, GA
Service Number: A35/TQ9.0.13706E5
Country: United States
Close ups:

MAA 2006
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MAA 2008
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HORPAT
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Spat
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The other thing I will add, the photo shows the 2008 MAA as very brown, whereas in person, it's very green.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:05 am 
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Location: long island , NY
Country: United States
Just got my spat uniform the other day . Great work . Very comfortable . To me with the above photos it looks like spats with a couple of washes will be very close to the 2006 MAA . Which to me looks the most accurate . Honestly I'm just happy people are making the uniforms . When I joined this group a couple of years ago there wasn't any one producing the uniform . So it's nice to have the choice . To me spats fits the bill .

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:06 am 
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Location: Essex, UK
Service Number: A12/TQ2.0.82145E1
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Just echoing others here - my MAA 1pats were a world of difference from the 3pats I have. The 3pats look fantastic IMO but they have started to fall apart a bit now. Going on the times MAA's problems started, I think mine are one of the last sets ever sent out.

Haven't had any experience of HORPAT so can only comment on the looks, not a massive fan of the colour and pattern, but they seem very well made. With regards to the cut, lthough I'm much more comfortable in cuts like the Polish BDU's (baggier and shirt untucked) I do really like the tailored look of the Marines in the film.

Tonystorm IIRC has some Spat BDU's, the first time I saw them they looked very green, we chatted about them and Spat's fading instrutions, so they were pretty new at the time. Next time I saw them, after a few more washes they looked great - they had faded down really well.

Looking forward to seeing Chef's take on them.

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 Post subject: Re: BDU Comparisons
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:27 am 
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Location: USS Sulaco
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Spat's and Aaron's BDU's are my favorite. Spat's look best from screen accurate. Aaron's look just awesome! :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:41 am 
Pint of AB negative please
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The Horpat looks too brown to me but I would have to see in person, I have seen Spats and I have seen a set of screen used and Spats are very very close for colour

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:48 am 
Sgt. Munkey
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Location: Acworth, GA
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When doing my comparison, I have been looking at the movie and publicity shots, rather than the props themselves, as I always like to go from what you see on screen.

Production accuracy vs screen accuracy (see SSgt Burton's thread), the two things vary drastically. Most people would have seen the movie and not have had access to the original items.

Reminds me of the Simpsons episode when they are filming the Radioactive Man movie and painting horses up like cows because cows don't look like cows on film ;).

Now in Aliens, because of the lighting, everything seemed to have a blue-ish hue to it.

Attachment:
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Taking this publicity shot of Hudson as a comparison base, I would say the various camos would come in this order (1 being closest to what's seen on screen).

1. SpatCave - slight greenish hue
2. 2006 MAA - too faded, looked more like the SpatCave camo originally, but after 7 years and lots and lots of washing and drying, the camo is now just too light.
3. HORPAT - overly brown, colour is quite intense and bright. Reminded me more of a desert/urban camo.
4. 2008 MAA - to me, these reminded me of a woodland camo. The light parts actually seemed mid grey. It was almost like they had been washed with dark blue jeans, which gave it a dark greenish blue hue.

That being said, it's all down to personal preference (and these are my PERSONAL OPINIONS) and what you use as your basis for comparison.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:37 pm 
Prop Churner Outer
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Location: Bath, Maine
Service Number: A03/TQ1.0.12143G1
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And I totally agree with your comment about mixing and matching. Your 2006 MAA and Spat's offering are about all that will play well together. I've mentioned far too many times already how I like the variation between my HORPAT helmet cover and my Spat trousers (that'll be the last time I write about it), but I wouldn't want the same variation between my blouse and trousers.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:08 pm 
Dresser of Nerds
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Location: NYC
Glad you like the material! I would like to make one correction, it's not just "Spat" material. Anthony (Eisbaer) was the guy who found the printer, invested half the start-up money, and kept reminding me to "get off my ass, and start the BDU's" for the year before I finally got off my ass and started the BDU's. So they're as much his BDU's as mine.

And we did decide from the start to make the material ship looking more newly issued. Originally we were going to have it printed pre-faded, but I know from a few years of making armor that there are a few people out there who have wanted their armor to look pristine, with no weathering, like it was just issued to them from the Corps. So we give the wearer the option to fade it as much or as little as they'd like.

I wore my set this weekend at Shore Leave, and to me they feel like a cozy set of pajamas. Soft, light and comfy. And that was the way we wanted it.

At one point, we had thought about offering a set that we were going to call "Pattern S", which would be pre-faded and with a blue hue printed in to really look like what you saw on screen. Maybe one day we'll sit around and design that.

Anyway, glad you like the material and color. Thanks for the compliments, guys!

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 Post subject: Re: BDU Comparisons
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:01 pm 
SPQR
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Location: Southern Ontario
Country: Canada
HORPAT to me looks like brand new camo is supposed to look like...brand new. Back when I was in the army, getting a new pair of combat fatigues always made you look like the new guy, because they were bright as hell. Repeated washings and fading from use, UV rays etc. is what made them look like a well worn piece of kit. Not 2 washings. I'd be concerned if my clothing faded too much after only a couple of uses.

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 Post subject: Re: BDU Comparisons
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:23 pm 
And the running man home game
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Location: Los Angeles
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Can we see a pattern comparison also? Same area lined up.


Specifically, I would like to see the MAA 2008 vs Horpat + Spat


Thanks for doing the review Branningan!



Might be easier to keep with 1pat/2pat/3pat regarding MAA gear.


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 Post subject: Re: BDU Comparisons
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:54 pm 
Lifer
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Location: **Hamilton** Active Duty: USS Socorro
Country: Canada
This may or may not help but I'll post it anyway...


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Sorry for the small pic, but these are my 1pat MAA BDUs from 2005 (?).

I own a set of the 2pat as well, so when I get a free minute, I post them side by side with a piece of white paper.

As you might be able to see, the 1pat were very much brown toned. Even MAA used to joke (sort of :roll: ) that this pattern's colours were a tribute to the USMC 6 colour chocolate chip desert camo from '91, because of the "browness."

EDIT- here is a bit better pic. Take note that these were brand new when this pic was taken and have not been faded yet.

Attachment:
MAA 1PAT 001.jpg
MAA 1PAT 001.jpg [ 138.79 KiB | Viewed 12337 times ]





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 Post subject: Re: BDU Comparisons
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:20 pm 
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Service Number: A07/TQ2.0.12129E1
Country: United Kingdom
In ww2 the Afrika corp wore a greenish uniform, with time and the sun/sand etc this faded out to various shades of light green/brown, the caps in particular showed if a guy was a desert vet or an fng, it got to a point that new guys would piss on their caps and leave them out in the sun to fade them out to look more like the old hands, in Vietnam the combat troops would let their boots wear, the green parts went reddish brown and the black leather went brown too, they called them 'boonie buffs' and it showed who was a combat vet and who was a REMF.the greens could vary from a brownish green to almost a grey, the jackets would wear at a different rate so a guy could be in new trosers and an old jacket with a massive difference in colours, What I am saying is all camos used in a military unit can vary from man to man, from brand new just issued to faded out and frayed combat vet kit, I personally like the different contrasts, they are all essentially the same camo and I think they would all look good in a mix and match set up

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 Post subject: Re: BDU Comparisons
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:25 pm 
Sgt. Munkey
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Location: Acworth, GA
Service Number: A35/TQ9.0.13706E5
Country: United States
Noble wrote:
Can we see a pattern comparison also? Same area lined up.


Specifically, I would like to see the MAA 2008 vs Horpat + Spat


Thanks for doing the review Branningan!



Might be easier to keep with 1pat/2pat/3pat regarding MAA gear.


I will see what I can do when I have all the costumes back together (the 2008 MAA and HORPAT belong to Gman666).

As for the PATS, tbh, I am not sure what mine are. I *believe* they are 2PAT.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:39 pm 
Shithouse Mouse
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Location: Puyallup WA. USA
Service Number: A12/TQ1.0.22137E1
Country: United States
Thanks for the info.. I got the MAA 3 Pats and was not happy. 1. Not pre washed so they shrank a little even washing in cold and drip drying. 2. The cargo pockets weren't in the same location of the legs of the pants.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:01 pm 
Sgt. Munkey
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Location: Acworth, GA
Service Number: A35/TQ9.0.13706E5
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Doc wrote:
Thanks for the info.. I got the MAA 3 Pats and was not happy. 1. Not pre washed so they shrank a little even washing in cold and drip drying. 2. The cargo pockets weren't in the same location of the legs of the pants.


Yeah, my 2006 (2PATT?) BDUs were not overly perfect. Bazfish and I ordered our stuff together, and there were differences between placement of pockets and size between the two. Gman's 2008 MAAs (3PATT?) were definitely the poorer cousins and showed lots of signs of corner cutting (like the back pockets missing velcro).

Makes me glad I got mine when I did, I would not have been happy to have paid out for the 2008 versions and probably would have sent them back and demanded a refund.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:23 pm 
Miscreant and Foukérre
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He'd have refused a refund - If you were lucky he'd have offered a partial refund if you returned the BDUs at your own cost.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:05 am 
Lifer
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Location: **Hamilton** Active Duty: USS Socorro
Country: Canada
Mantroon wrote:
my 2006 (2PATT?) BDUs.


Found an old thread that had a bit of info on MAA's first uniforms-

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5213&hilit=1pat&start=25

So MAA's 1PAT was introduced in 2004. This was 100% cotton and used standard military sizing (Medium-Regular, Medium-Short, Large-Long etc.).

MAA 2PAT came out in 2006. (IIRC) This had "standard" sizing and "Euro Cut" sizing. The Euro cut was meant to more closely replicate the cut of the screen used uniforms. However this meant that the trousers waistline rested much lower on the hips than standard sizing did. 2PAT was available in 100% cotton, and Ripstop material (which didn't fade as much, was lighter in hot weather, and considered more durable).

I have no info on 3PAT as I don't own a set.


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 Post subject: Re: BDU Comparisons
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:39 am 
'Nuff said.
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Location: Conyers, Georgia
Service Number: A08/TQ0.0.12146E1
Country: United States
I am having extreme issues with the pictures taken so round 2 will have to wait till this weekend. THIS THREAD IS NOT TO JUDGE WHICH IS BETTER. IT IS JUST TO PROVIDE INFORMAITON. As stated before to avoid any type of misunderstanding we are putting the pictures out for you to judge. It is like PS3/X-Box 360, PEPSI/COKE, or Green/Brown Bess. There is no right answer. It all comes down to personal preference. The one pic I was able to get from my phone is the one I took of my 3PAT top and HORPAT pants.
Image

As stated earlier it is brown tones. That was stated in Aaron's thread so nothing new there. This is just to show how the 2 look together. It is no big deal just cannot mix and match which you shouldn't seeing it is two different manufactures. It should also be no big deal at DragonCon since everyone uses different sources. This is just to show everyone the difference. The only reason I got pants is that Aaron did not offer a blouse that would fit me. I have extremely broad shoulders. I will try to get more pictures but might have to wait till this weekend.

As for the pattern, I tried that this weekend and was able to match up Spat's and MAA's somewhat but could not with the HORPAT. Will take another look.

This weekend I promise more pics with the pants on and shin armor. My HORPAT's are sewn together several times better than my 3PATs from MAA. I am happy with them. I do personally prefer the color of MAA's but I also like Brown Bess and own PS3. I will be wearing my HORPAT's at DragonCon so everyone can see.

Thanks!

Greg

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:13 am 
Site Admin
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Location: Wasteland Minnesota, USA
SSgt Burton wrote:
2PAT was available in 100% cotton, and Ripstop material (which didn't fade as much,
was lighter in hot weather, and considered more durable).

Kevin


The ripstop materials may have been lighter weight, but the Poly-cotton material keeps heat in like
mad. Given the choice, I normally wear my heavier weight 2nd pattern Cotton BDUs.

Truth be told, I don't even know if I've worn the ripstop BDUs with my full loadout yet. If I have,
they haven't faded at all and are minty fresh.

The wire loop buttons on those suck too. :)

Russ

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 Post subject: Re: BDU Comparisons
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:38 pm 
DC DMZ Veteran '99
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Location: Eryri - Land of the Eagle
Service Number: A09/TQ1.0.02135E1
Country: United Kingdom
To underline what Gunny63 said above I can give two further real world examples of fading and variance of uniforms (is that an oxymoron?) the first was when a similar discussion was taking place on a 1/6th scale forum regarding various manufacturers versions of British DPM and someone posted a group shot of a Troop of Royal Marines and virtually no-one in the picture had matching trousers and smocks. Also on the fading front one of the most iconic items of Military regalia in the world the Legendary Kepi Blanc of the French Foreign Legion originally started life as a Khaki Kepi cover which regular scrubbing and sun bleaching rapidly turned white!

I also have to say that like Gunny63 I like the varied look in a squad as seen in the behind the scenes polaroids and many real world examples as previously mentioned. So I don't see any serious problems with some minor variations between manufacturers. :)

gunny63 wrote:
In ww2 the Afrika corp wore a greenish uniform, with time and the sun/sand etc this faded out to various shades of light green/brown, the caps in particular showed if a guy was a desert vet or an fng, it got to a point that new guys would piss on their caps and leave them out in the sun to fade them out to look more like the old hands, in Vietnam the combat troops would let their boots wear, the green parts went reddish brown and the black leather went brown too, they called them 'boonie buffs' and it showed who was a combat vet and who was a REMF.the greens could vary from a brownish green to almost a grey, the jackets would wear at a different rate so a guy could be in new trosers and an old jacket with a massive difference in colours, What I am saying is all camos used in a military unit can vary from man to man, from brand new just issued to faded out and frayed combat vet kit, I personally like the different contrasts, they are all essentially the same camo and I think they would all look good in a mix and match set up

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 Post subject: Re: BDU Comparisons
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:33 am 
Lifer
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Location: **Hamilton** Active Duty: USS Socorro
Country: Canada
Attachment:
1PAT vs 2PAT no flash 001.JPG
1PAT vs 2PAT no flash 001.JPG [ 490.53 KiB | Viewed 12429 times ]



Here is my MAA 1PAT (left) and 2PAT (right) tunics. This was taken indoors with no flash. Very close to how they appear in real life.

As you can see the 1PAT is much more brown. Also if the pattern doesn't seem to line up properly with the 1PAT, it is because I added some pleats in the back to be a little more form fitting. Both tunics have gone through several washes and are well faded.

And yes- I deliberately cut the sleeves off my 1PAT top. :wink:


Kevin

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:36 am 
Miscreant and Foukérre
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Me too :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:31 pm 
Sgt. Munkey
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Location: Acworth, GA
Service Number: A35/TQ9.0.13706E5
Country: United States
Ahhhh, so mine are definitely 2PAT... curse MAA and his weird system :P

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