TLGNNR said on 10/19/00 :
I'll chime in with what I know, to construct a "proper" pulse rifle would cost major $$$ as it's currently illegal to convert semi-auto weapons to full auto. The prices for existing full-auto weapons has gone through the roof since the law was changed back in 1989. For example, a Browning .50 caliber that was worth $2000 in '88 is worth about $10000 today.
There is a bit of confusion about the $1000 a year Special Occupational Taxpayer (SOT) license in regards to Class III weapons. Two SOT holders can transfer class III weapons between each other without the $200 tax stamp, but a non-SOT holder will still have to pay the tax to take possesion of a class III weapon from a SOT holder.
Going the semi-auto route, you can purchase a semi-auto M1A1 Thompson here in the states for about $900. With BATF approval and $200 for a class III tax stamp, you can legally go to the 12.25" barrel. The tradeoff is it is concidered a class III weapon and you then face all the hassles of possesing one. The 870 Shotgun is similar, BATF approval and $200 and you can own one of those as well. In the case of a pulserifle, you'd still $400 in tax as the BATF conciders it two seperate weapons.
The one hitch in the process is you have to get approval from the Chief Law Enforcement Officer (Typically the Sherrif)for the county in which you reside. This can be a huge stumbling block, even if it's legal in your state to own class III stuff and the BATF approves your application, if the CLEO won't sign off on it you can't take possesion of the weapon or convert one you already own.
I'm currently researching how I can build a functional semi-auto pulserifle without having to deal with owning a class III weapon. The M1A1 doesn't seem to be much of a problem, and I don't think an extra 4" of barrel length will mess up the looks too badly. (maybe a 16 hole barrel shroud will hide it.)
The 870 is going to be tougher, as it needs 18" of barrel to be legal and it mounts in front of the Thompson mag well. The best solution I can come up with is to cut a pair of SPAS 12 cages and weld parts of them together to make one long enough to fit under the 16" barreled Thompson. I figure I'll shorten the 870 magazine tube to fit inside the cage, and let the extra barrel length stick out past the SPAS cage end cap to keep it legal. I do plan on making a dummy 870 barrel that's short enough to look correct while being blocked to keep it from chambering shells so it's legal for display purposes.
I plan on making an aluminium shroud, and eliminating the counter ala the existing Bapty Hero pulserifle.
Butch...
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alien0199 said on 10/19/00 :
That's the thing TLGNNR. His were made using semi-auto Thompson M1s. You had to pay a $200 tax for the Short Barreled Rifle stamp, and I don't think It had a working shotgun pump. If you're 21 or older, you can contact the BATF if you want to make your Pulse Rifle the proper length. Just tell them you'd like to convert a carbine to a shorter than 16" rifle. I'm actually going to do this in about a year or so. If you are going to do it, remember, the plastic shrouds would start to melt if you went through a whole magazine. You'd have to use carbon fiber or aluminum for a shroud then.
Gerald S.
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alien0199 said on 10/19/00:
Do the same thing with the shotgun too. Thing is, It'd have a lot of kick. Make sure you have it mounted extremely well.
Gerald S.
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Armourer
10/19/00 :
Rather than muck around with Class 3 paperwork or the 16 1/2 inch smooth barrelled semi 1927-M1 (semi M1A1 lookalike), I thought that this might be useful to those of you who want a practical Pulse Rifle.
Just to point out folks that Auto Ordnance haven't made the 1927-M1 over the last few years, and I don't think that the new owners of Thompson, Kahr Arms, have any plans to either. That also goes for the full auto M1, that they produced.
Try them here anyway:
www.auto-ordnance.com Kahr Arms: P.O. Box 220, Blauvelt, NY 10913
Sales & Marketing: 914-353-7770 / Fax: 914-353-7833 / E-mail:
kahrhq@compuserve.com Customer Service: 508-791-6375 / E-mail:
kahrcs1@aol.com Philadelphia Ordnance Inc. were offering a 4130 steel Thompson M1A1 upper receiver, just to point out guys that you could make a BATF legal semi-auto blankfirer, if you're not going to shoot ball. As they count as non-firearms, this cuts out all the paperwork that the Class 3 brings, here's the info:
Features of Phila. Ordnance 80% M1/M1A1 Thompson Submachine Gun
Machined from 4130 aircraft quality steel (higher quality and strength than originally used)
100% machined exterior, all surfaces and contours are fully machined
Accepts original M1 or M1A1 Thompson parts
Threaded for barrel and slotted for grip mount
Fully machined ejection port, magazine well and feed ramp
trigger frame rails machined
ejector hole drilled and threaded
Buffer pilot and frame latch hole drilled and reamed
cocking handle slot machined
Rear sight mounting holes spotted
Drawings included
Price $245.00
add $20.00 for Military Blue or Parkerized
Finish include $8.00 for freight and insurance
It is not legal to finish this receiver into a machine gun without the proper license. You can make a non-firearm (DEWAT, blank gun). You do not need to be a licensed manufacturer to make a legal type (semi-auto, single shot) firearm for your own use as long as it is not for resale. Many people use this receiver to make a semi-auto using existing semi-auto spare parts as this receiver, being made from 4130 aircraft quality steel is much stronger and tougher than the semi-auto receivers currently available. Contact ATF for guidelines on the manufacture of legal semi-autos rifles or blank firing devices.
If you are planning on going the Class 3 route, here is some info that might help. Remember it is your right as a American citizen to own a full auto weapon in the US, providing you are sensible, sane, law abiding and live in a state that permits ownership, this can be done. I would, however, like to point out that this is only worth pursuing if you have adequate experience with firearms and I have a strong feeling that you won’t be able to show it off at any conventions.
Impact Tactical Weapon Systems is one company that deals in NFA weapons. This is what they have to say about how you can legally own a machine gun:
Can I Legally Own A Machine Gun? One Word Answer: ABSOLUTELY!
It is a common misconception that machine guns cannot be owned by law-abiding citizens. This comes from the creation of a variety of confusing laws that have made purchasing a full-auto gun more difficult than purchasing a "normal" gun. But, you can comply with the law and own a machine gun.
First a little history: In May of 1986, certain laws went into effect that made it illegal for 'civilians' to own fully automatic firearms that were manufactured AFTER THAT DATE. Most fully automatic weapons manufactured and registered BEFORE MAY, 1996, MAY BE OWNED BY AND SOLD TO INDIVIDUALS. The full-auto guns that may be owned by individuals are called 'transferable'. Some states DO NOT allow machine gun ownership at all, no matter when the gun was made, but most states do.
To purchase a transferable machine gun, you must meet certain requirements (generally the same as when you purchase another gun), fill out special paperwork (called a 'form 4'), and pay a $200, one-time, transfer tax. Every time a machine gun is transferred, the $200 tax must be paid-- usually by the purchaser. The steps to take to purchase a transferable machine gun are:
Find a dealer locally who can assist you in all phases of the transfer. This should go beyond helping you fill out the paperwork: they should help you locate the gun if it isn't in stock and allow you to shoot the gun while your paperwork is being processed by the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms). It will usually take 4-6 weeks for the dealer to get the gun from another dealer if they don't already have it in stock (due to BATF paperwork delays).
Get your fingerprints (either by a police dept. or by a qualified fingerprinter, two imprints are needed) and two passport sized pictures taken. These will be used to perform a comprehensive criminal background check on you.
Have your local dealer help you fill out an "Application for Tax Paid Transfer And Registration Of Firearm" for, known as a "form 4".
You must have the signature of the Chief Law Enforcement (CLEO) officer that has jurisdiction over the municipality in which you live on the form 4. This could be the City Chief or the County Sheriff, for example. This is usually not a problem-- in machine gun friendly states.
The form 4, CLEO signature, 2 fingerprint cards, 2 pictures, and a $200 check (your one-time transfer tax) must all be mailed to the BATF and an approved tax stamp returned before you may take possession of the gun. This may take anywhere from 2 to 5 months.
Although it may seem complicated, Impact say that they will be happy to help you through every step in the process. They have transferable guns in stock, and if they don't have it, they can tap into a network of dealers in other states to find it for you.
If you are genuinely interested, then see their website for more details:
www.impactguns.comAlso try Big Jim's Machinegun Sanctuary, he has boards that carry Class 3 want and for sale ads...
Hope some of this is useful.
regards - Armourer
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TLGNNR said on 10/19/00:
I forgot to mention that to be legal anyone making a semi-auto pulse rifle will probably have to fix the buttstock so that it can't move. We might get away with it since the Thompson doesn't have a flash hider, and I don't think the detachable magazine counts as one of the two allowable features. Since they are not imported weapons we might have a bit of leeway there as well, I'll have to research it a bit more. One of the nice things about using the 16" barrel is the Thompson without a buttstock at all already meets most states overall length requirements, so even if it turns out that a collapsable stock isn't legal fixing it in the fully retracted position would be.
I've concidered going the SBR/SBS route, and even sticking with 16" Thompson I'm still concidering doing the BATF paperwork to get a legal short barreled shotgun for the project. Scattergun Technologies does conversions to the 870 all the time for SWAT entry weapons. The tradeoff is the short barreled rifle and/or short barreled shotgun will be concidered a class III weapon even if it's not full auto and there are restrictions applicable that make owning one a hassle. I'm just not willing to put up with the BS to own a dolled up semi-auto Thompson when I can own the same weapon with a few more inches of barrel with no restrictions.
Armorer, the "non-gun" route sounds interesting, and if I didn't already have a semi-auto M1A1 I might be tempted to go that route. I do plan on acquiring a Class III weapon one of these days, but it'll have to make bigger holes and be belt-fed to make it worth the trouble. I'm also hoping we can get some of the draconian legislation regarding them removed in the future, and you can rest assured anyone who asks for my vote has been clearly informed of my positions on the issue.
Butch...
When you are out of Pulse Rifles, you are out of Weapons!