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Explorer MM-IV ("Gerber Clone" and Hudson's knife)
http://forum.alienslegacy.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15254
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Author:  bigbisont [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Explorer MM-IV ("Gerber Clone" and Hudson's knife)

Figured this knife needed its own thread. There is already some great info about it, but it is often buried at the end of other threads labeled with Gerber and Night Raider titles.


A brief "highlight" list of must-read threads regarding Hudson's knife (and by default this knife) are these 2 threads:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12598&hilit=gerber+chart
-This thread highlights the various types and styles of Gerber that have been produced through the years. In this thread I suggest to get a "screen accurate" gerber (correct Tooth-per inch, correct style sheath, correct handle color, and correct blade) one needed to find a 1977-79 era knife and blue the blade. Bluing the blade was actually quite common as they came with "field bluing" kits when sold new. It made so much sense...for a little while. That theory would prove short-lived!


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13654&hilit=gerber+chart
-This thread started out focused on the modern day series of "Raider" knives as 'fill in' items, but quickly blew up everything we thought we knew about Hudson's "Gerber". Specifically screen grabs were used from the "knife trick" scene to show it wasn't a gerber at all. The hand guard was not that of a real gerber (angular contours, flat faces) and was actually that of a clone (rounded contours which tapered to a point). The MM-IV was targeted.


http://militarycarryknives.com/CopiesClones.htm
-This page highlights the various "clones" of Gerber Mk2s and there you find the candidates for Hudson's 'true' knife. I think it goes without saying the Explorer MM-IV is the top suspect. The other clones have the wrong sheath, wrong # of teeth in the serrated area, or the wrong blade material (A shiny 440 stainless blade cannot be easily darkened as it appears in the film. It is an elaborate process and only the MM-IV had a factory applied black oxide finish).

In fact, the Explorer MM-IV aces the test in every regard:
-Correct handle color and features (as screen matched in the 2nd link)
-Correct blade features which matched the screen cap'd blade (TPI, wasp, darkened blade)
-And now as these pics will show, an even more accurate Sheath than a Gerber.

Attachment:
Hudson MM-IV sheath.jpg
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In the screen grabs of the sheath you see "straight" side walls, not curved inward mimicking the 'wasp' of the blade like on the Gerber.
You also see a perfect match for the retaining flap/tab. The taper has already started to a point by the time the tab reaches the metal 'button' on the MM-IV, unlike the gerber which has a less subtle taper that starts after the button. Also the button sits very close to the edge of the opening on Hudson's/MM-IV sheath as opposed to further down on the Gerber sheath.


I am not saying all Gerbers need to be removed from costumes. Far from it. They are still great "close enough" items :wink: It is fair and logical to say the Explorer played the character of a Gerber even, so do what you have been doing! I just want to slap this nail in the topic.


Also, even though they don't necessarily prove anything knew, I took these pics of the MM-IV side by side with a 1979 gerber, so figured I'd post em.
Attachment:
20150225_192937_HDR.jpg
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It is interesting to me the MM-IV is just a tiny bit bigger. Felt heavier too.

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20150225_193022_HDR.jpg
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The higher start to the serrations also matches the screen caps.

Fun stuff.

Author:  schotti [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Explorer MM-IV ("Gerber Clone" and Hudson's knife)

Well that is just amazing,thanks so much for sharing this has just answered all my questions about this knife,Cheers mate.Do you now what kniffe hicks used on his armour?



Neil

Author:  bigbisont [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Explorer MM-IV ("Gerber Clone" and Hudson's knife)

schotti wrote:
Well that is just amazing,thanks so much for sharing this has just answered all my questions about this knife,Cheers mate.Do you now what kniffe hicks used on his armour?

Neil


Sure thing.

Hicks had a "Scalemead Survival" knife which is the 'shiny blade' version of an "Explorer Night Raider". The only difference being the "Night Raider" has a blackened blade (and of course the etching that says scalemead/explorer). Most people find Night Raiders as they are far more common.

*Apone (right strap under holster), Vaz (right boot), Drake (left boot), Crowe (left pelvis on belt), and Frost (left hip) also all carried that knife.
**None of the modern "Raider" series are screen accurate, btw. Neither the "Raider I", Raider II, nor Raider III have the screw cap at the bottom

Author:  schotti [ Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Explorer MM-IV ("Gerber Clone" and Hudson's knife)

Thats amazing thanks for the Info.Looks like i have a Challenge on my hands to try and find One of them.

Cheers

Neil

Author:  ObiHahn [ Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:53 am ]
Post subject: 

Very extensive and very helpful information, thanks man! Now to find that elusive Gerber clone in Germany. Neil, if you should find a source... ;)

Author:  schotti [ Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Explorer MM-IV ("Gerber Clone" and Hudson's knife)

I Certainly will let you now.

Neil

Author:  Harry Harris [ Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:34 pm ]
Post subject: 

Top stuff! I will of course have to find one of these to compliment my Hudson armour. :)

Harry

Author:  schotti [ Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Explorer MM-IV ("Gerber Clone" and Hudson's knife)

Have a Look here.There sold out at the Moment.I'm going to give them a Ring on monday to ask if they might be able to get more in.
There is a Button for english so no Problems for you all.Look under Tools and then knives,and then under fixed Blade knives,the knife is on page 7.

http://www.asmc.de

Neil

Author:  ObiHahn [ Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Explorer MM-IV ("Gerber Clone" and Hudson's knife)

schotti wrote:
Have a Look here.There sold out at the Moment.I'm going to give them a Ring on monday to ask if they might be able to get more in.
There is a Button for english so no Problems for you all.Look under Tools and then knives,and then under fixed Blade knives,the knife is on page 7.

http://www.asmc.de

Neil


Thanks, great link, great find. It is the Gerber though mind you, and the recent version at that, not the "clone" used for the movie and highlighted in this thread.

Author:  schotti [ Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Explorer MM-IV ("Gerber Clone" and Hudson's knife)

Thats right it's Not the clone but it's interesting anyway.

Neil

Author:  ObiHahn [ Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Explorer MM-IV ("Gerber Clone" and Hudson's knife)

schotti wrote:
Thats right it's Not the clone but it's interesting anyway.

Neil


Yup, it is. I can't tell if they offer a fair deal or not, I am totally new to knife pricing. ;)

Author:  bigbisont [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Explorer MM-IV ("Gerber Clone" and Hudson's knife)

Got some better pics of this MM-IV. Figured I'd just stash em here.
(isolated from grabs by Willie and Moosh, thanks guys!)

Decent shot of the contoured and pointed hilt (unlike the flat angular hilt of the gerber)
Attachment:
Hudson's MMIV Hilt 1.jpg
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Better shot of the sheath (again, shorter retaining tab, button snap placement closer to hilt, straight side walls)
Attachment:
Hudson Knife 2.jpg
Hudson Knife 2.jpg [ 71.27 KiB | Viewed 17637 times ]



Another fun fact: If you look close, it appears that Hudson's "ab pad" strap is run through the belt loop of the sheath. I had always wondered about how he secured it to his strap. The tape at the top looks fairly obvious, but I wondered how he kept it from flapping about. Securing it at the bottom this way would explain it.


Additional comparisons using a "good" (not worn like in first post) MM-IV
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Attachments:
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