The discussion of the Alien series of films and the props used in them is the aim, but if it's got Big Bugs and Big Guns, then they are welcome too!





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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:34 pm 
AKKURAZI
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Thanks for sharing your findings, this is a great read and very impressive research. I have to say all of your theories seem coherent and the pics to prove them are awesome.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:11 pm 
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ObiHahn wrote:
Thanks for sharing your findings, this is a great read and very impressive research. I have to say all of your theories seem coherent and the pics to prove them are awesome.
retrogarde wrote:
Damn fine detective work!


Thanks guys. Too bad the easy parts are over! The other subtleties are far more hidden.

2 Quick notes before the weekend:
-I didn't notice before, but the 'Ideal 8's" 870 doesnt have an extractor pin on the bolt carrier. Very curious... A phony perhaps?!?!?! Might not be a real 870 in there after all. Maybe a just a dummy/cast 870.
Attachment:
Extractor.jpg
Extractor.jpg [ 96.92 KiB | Viewed 7001 times ]



-There truly are never more than 4 'hero' rifles in any one scene at a time. Even when Frost racks and lays down the 10-hole in the armory, he lays it on top of only 3 other stacked rifles (which are presumably heroes, but the lighting is so bad its hard to confirm)
Attachment:
Armory Stack.jpg
Armory Stack.jpg [ 393.93 KiB | Viewed 7001 times ]



The moments leading up to the Ops battle is the time when 4 heroes appear on screen outside the armory. Even this is not certain. Ripley had a dummy prior to this moment and Hicks has a dummy right after this moment.
Attachment:
Ops Battle Group.jpg
Ops Battle Group.jpg [ 260.73 KiB | Viewed 7001 times ]


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:43 pm 
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This is why I love this forum. The passion here is evident. I plan on reading your insights this weekend. Thanks BB


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 Post subject: Re: Pulse Rifle Concept and were 16 made for Production?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:07 pm 
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Wow, just stumbled over this thread, great source of information, much appreciated!


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 Post subject: Re: Pulse Rifle Concept and were 16 made for Production?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:52 pm 
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The search for better screen caps goes slowly, but I do have some more info/theories.

As I mentioned in the previous post, the "Ideal 8", despite looking as if it had a function grenade launcher, absolutely did NOT. I pointed out the lack of an extractor pin on the extractor bolt. I also just noticed this on the 'underside shot'.

No loading port, the SPAS cage is not even cut to accommodate loading of grenades, and a visible seam of the cast object filling the SPAS cage.

Attachment:
Ideal 8 does not have real 870.jpg
Ideal 8 does not have real 870.jpg [ 133.94 KiB | Viewed 6795 times ]


It has been said the 10-hole was the only build that actually included a functional 870. I believe that to be true now more than ever. The "ideal 8" had a very nice casting of an 870 in there, but no chance it was real.




Also, I may have isolated a 6th 'hero'. For now I will call it the "Hive Hero" as it was most prominently featured in the first and last hive battle.

It was most clearly seen on Hicks' back (without mag) while trying to close the APC doors.
Attachment:
Weathering 3.jpg
Weathering 3.jpg [ 183.2 KiB | Viewed 6795 times ]


Prominent and unique features include
-No 'tabs' on magazine area of shroud
-Extra thick top lip on barrel vent. ALL other pulse rifles have very narrow/thin top lips.
Attachment:
Hive Hero features.jpg
Hive Hero features.jpg [ 117.26 KiB | Viewed 6795 times ]



This rifle is also seen carried by Ripley in the stare-down with the queen. Thick topped barrel vent and no mag tabs are visible.
Attachment:
Hive Primary Hero.jpg
Hive Primary Hero.jpg [ 190.35 KiB | Viewed 6795 times ]



Fun fact, this essentially of proves Ripley had 4 different rifles in the hive seen! Look at the "hive hero" image above. It has the locator tube duct taped to it.
When you see the "short Nozzle" in her hands, there is no locator tube. The Barrel vent is also different as the rear "circle' is further forward and the top lip is not as thick. That means she used the 10-hole in the elevator, the Hive Hero, the Short barrel, and a stunt all in that sequence.
Attachment:
Hive seen Rifle #2.jpg
Hive seen Rifle #2.jpg [ 48.21 KiB | Viewed 6795 times ]



So I feel pretty confident saying the "Hive Hero" is different and unique from the "big square", "short nozzle", "Ideal 8" (very different vent), 10-hole, and "forward hero". That makes 6 plus 'stunts' so far.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:15 pm 
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Your names for these guns would be equally great for a pack of dogs or a Blade Runner style street gang!

Great research man!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:00 am 
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Is the gun Remar holding the one with 'Apone's' sling pad on it?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:47 pm 
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ilovethecorps wrote:
Is the gun Remar holding the one with 'Apone's' sling pad on it?


Yes sir. There are actually at least 4 sling pads floating around. Apone's was most featured, but other pads are seen on other rifles scattered about.

This image from earlier in the thread shows 4 'sling pads' wrapped around slings on a table
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image %281%29.jpg
image %281%29.jpg [ 51.71 KiB | Viewed 6676 times ]


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:23 pm 
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That's cool! I've got a Noble 'Sling Pad' on my Noble sling... Nice piece of kit!

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 Post subject: Re: Pulse Rifle Concept and were 16 made for Production?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:21 pm 
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So back to the idea of "working grenade launchers"...There is nothing definitive here, but it is another tasty nugget to mull over.

This video features the 8-hole "Delta" rifle (A 'surviving' rifle painted black for Alien 3, then painted OD before it would head off to the propstore of London, I suppose).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_dlAmBkr10

Here is an 8-hole vent that DOES have a functional grenade launcher. So maybe one did exist.
Or, maybe this one was 'upgraded'. With this video occurring so many years after the film, it is hard to say how much is 'untouched'. The vent is set fairly far back and the grenade launcher barrel is protruding a bit more than usual. Also it has no 'counter' so it is possible those arent even original shrouds. I haven't match any of those identifying features to a screen-cap in film.

-So theory #1: It is a functional 8-hole w/grenade launcher and I (we) just need to keep digging to match it.

-Theory #2 (a crazy theory?): What if it is the 'guts' to the 10 hole? Considering the shrouds and vent placement don't match any screen caps...maybe it was the 10-hole that had been brought out of retirement with new parts. This would assume a surviving 8-hole hadn't simply been upgraded prior to filming Alien 3, though.


Last edited by bigbisont on Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:32 pm 
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As far as I know, and I'm pretty much 100% certain, the Pulse Rifle in the video above is this one, that Armourer and I saw at Bapty back in 2000.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:55 pm 
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Hi Harry... I note that has uneven shrouds (thicker on one side than the other)...

One thing to consider is the role of the theatrical Armourer...

Obviously, as I know you guys already know, so excuse me for summarising, but in any action scene with jumping or running around which did not involve firing or close up 'hero' working of the weapon, the actors would carry stunt versions... Because they don't want to risk damage or injuring actors etc...

So the armouries only supply firing versions for firing or close up hero work...

It stands to reason that the units had to be broken down to clean... Removal of shrouds etc... Thus the hex key bolt fastenings etc...

If I were BAPTY, I'd assemble a hero from the best of the remaining parts... And also during cleanings and reassembly, I wouldn't be surprised if vents etc were placed back incorrectly...

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:05 pm 
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ilovethecorps wrote:
...

It stands to reason that the units had to be broken down to clean... Removal of shrouds etc... Thus the hex key bolt fastenings etc...

If I were BAPTY, I'd assemble a hero from the best of the remaining parts... And also during cleanings and reassembly, I wouldn't be surprised if vents etc were placed back incorrectly...



Damn good point. Be it 'put back incorrectly' or simply combining the best of the surviving bits to make the most impressive item, I agree odds are pretty good the rifle in this video is a combination of parts and not proof of a new and unique hero.

Check the underside shots of the shroud from both the Ideal 8 and harry's photo of the 'delta'/video rifle.
Attachment:
Ideal 8 is Delta.jpg
Ideal 8 is Delta.jpg [ 92.54 KiB | Viewed 6601 times ]

Looks like a match to me (barring age and damage changes)

As much fun as the thought of Cameron having the 10-hole on his wall (untouched and perfect) is, I think this video is the 'ideal 8' with the 10-hole's grenade launcher attached (counter cover fell off at some point, vent put back on a hair too far backward when attaching the GL).


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 Post subject: Re: Pulse Rifle Concept and were 16 made for Production?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:39 pm 
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Be it 'put back incorrectly' or simply combining the best of the surviving bits to make the most impressive item, I agree odds are pretty good the rifle in this video is a combination of parts and not proof of a new and unique hero


Any thoughts on when this could have taken place? It seems strange that any rifle supplied by Bapty for A3 would have a functional Remington inside it?

Is it possible that this rifle is a Frankenstein assembled later, pureley as an example of a 'complete' Pulse Rifle, and never actually used in any production?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:45 pm 
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I think you have a point there... It is possible Bapty reassembled a full hero for Alien 3 as they would know the stipulations for a PR from the previous film... But as stated above, I reckon they've just made a good firer out of a couple of Heros...

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 Post subject: Re: Pulse Rifle Concept and were 16 made for Production?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:59 pm 
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I know it's an extension of the excellent existing research, but do we know how many rifles were produced for A3?

The other existing ones seem to have the vac-formed shrouds. Maybe there was only one live firer (our Frankenstein, with aluminium shrouds) and no stunts?

Just a thought... :)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:44 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:00 pm 
Proceed on a 2-1-6...
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Thanks for this, Willie...

Another interesting point is that in the photos above, Vasquez seems to be carrying a VP70 in her holster and not her S&W? And has her PR even got a sling?

Note the painted aluminium end block on the GL... Just goes to show I am going too dad by blackening my SD studios end block for my hero build...

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:38 pm 
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ilovethecorps wrote:
...
Another interesting point is that in the photos above, Vasquez seems to be carrying a VP70 in her holster and not her S&W? And has her PR even got a sling?
...


It is actually her model 39. The angle does hide most of the features but you can see the exposed hammer on the rear poking out and on the front the silver nub under the barrel opening is the pin the slide...slides on?

Her rifle definitely does not have a sling though. I noticed the sling disappears when she is in the vents. I guess being crouched low and firing a heavy 'hero' was complicated enough without risking tripping or getting tangled in the sling?

Another crystal clear, and totally unrelated, thing this pic shows is more proof that Vaz's chest rig belt/straps are made of the sling material. Therefore it was probably green (which when wet, low light, and the blue filter all combine to look black on screen).


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:53 pm 
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Great Pics as always Willie, thanks for sharing!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:59 pm 
Proceed on a 2-1-6...
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Yes Willlie - Thanks for sharing - They're awesome pics! Love 'em!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:13 pm 
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Oh of course, happy to help...

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:36 am 
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Awesome pic!

Can you post this one in full resolution?
http://alienscollection.com/cameronoperationssmall.jpg

I'm kinda curious as to what watch Cameron is wearing there.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:41 am 
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nickdaring wrote:
Awesome pic!

Can you post this one in full resolution?
http://alienscollection.com/cameronoperationssmall.jpg

I'm kinda curious as to what watch Cameron is wearing there.


Sure thing:

http://alienscollection.com/cameronoperations.jpg

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:18 am 
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You always find or have amazing pics. :-)

Willie Goldman wrote:
nickdaring wrote:
Awesome pic!

Can you post this one in full resolution?
http://alienscollection.com/cameronoperationssmall.jpg

I'm kinda curious as to what watch Cameron is wearing there.


Sure thing:

http://alienscollection.com/cameronoperations.jpg


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