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What night/time would you like to have the Marine Meal @ DC15?
Friday 7:30 pm 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Friday 8:00 pm 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Saturday 7:30 pm 7%  7%  [ 1 ]
Saturday 8:00 pm 53%  53%  [ 8 ]
Sunday 7:30 pm 7%  7%  [ 1 ]
Sunday 8:00 pm 33%  33%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 15
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 Post subject: DISCUSSION/POLL FOR DRAGON CON 2015 MARINE MEAL DAY/TIME?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:10 am 
'Nuff said.
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Thanks to everyone again for a very successful Marine Meal at Dragon Con 2014! Now that the dust has began to settle we want to start on planning the meal for Dragon Con 2015. There have been requests that we have the meal on a different day/time due to conflicting schedules on Saturday night. We want to hear every attendee's opinion so we are putting up this poll. Although the goal is for everyone to attend, we know with a group this big and diverse suggestions for the day/time of the meal will vary. We will go with the majority. If anyone has any suggestions on how the meal can be made better post away. Leaving this up till after the UKCM Alien Encounter so we can discuss. Putting this in the USCM noticeboard cause this is where we had the sign up for last year. If it needs to be moved please do so

Thanks!

Greg

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Last edited by gman666 on Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: VOTE FOR DRAGON CON 2015 MARINE MEAL DAY/TIME
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:02 am 
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I'd like to point out that the last rotation at our fan table ends at 19:00, so, organizing a dinner any earlier than 19:30 is disparaging to those whoever are manning the table to the end.


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 Post subject: Re: VOTE FOR DRAGON CON 2015 MARINE MEAL DAY/TIME
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:06 pm 
'Nuff said.
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Edited but it reset the poll so please vote again.

Thanks!

Greg

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 Post subject: Re: VOTE FOR DRAGON CON 2015 MARINE MEAL DAY/TIME
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:56 pm 
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It's always been on Saturday Night. Always. That's too bad if the Colonial Marines Annual Dinner interfere's with some other group. It happens at DragonCon. Can't do everything.

Moving it just screws somebody else.

For example, the Colonial Fleet of Battlestar Galactica, always hosts their dinner on Sunday Night. We have members who always attend that event. If our dinner for example is moved to Sunday Night, then they can't attend both events as they normally do.

I don't recall any discussion about wanting the dinner moved. If you can't make it, because you want to do something else,

Then just go to that event instead.

Also, I see no reason whatsoever that discussion was not taken FIRST, BEFORE ANY POLL WAS PUT UP!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: VOTE FOR DRAGON CON 2015 MARINE MEAL DAY/TIME
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:58 pm 
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And another thing-

If an earlier dinner is requested- as Dom pointed out, Who Is Going To Volunteer To Skip It And Man The Fan Table?!?!

That's the whole problem, a late dinner means a late return to costuming.

And if photoshoots, etc. are missed, that's what happens.

Again, I see no point in this at all.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:37 pm 
'Nuff said.
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Fine delete the thread. It was just a poll to get everyone's opinion. The purpose of this thread was to discuss in the open. Since when did this become a dictatorship with no room for discussion.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:21 pm 
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gman666 wrote:
Fine delete the thread. It was just a poll to get everyone's opinion. The purpose of this thread was to discuss in the open. Since when did this become a dictatorship with no room for discussion.


When you skipped the part about discussion and went straight to changing the dinner.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:00 pm 
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Hollis DZC wrote:
gman666 wrote:
Fine delete the thread. It was just a poll to get everyone's opinion. The purpose of this thread was to discuss in the open. Since when did this become a dictatorship with no room for discussion.


When you skipped the part about discussion and went straight to changing the dinner.


Ok, guys, lets put the brakes on here. This is just a poll to see a time and date. This doesn't mean that it is being moved at all. I know there are times that are tradition or better for others, but opening up a discussion with a poll is not a bad idea. It is just information that helps in the planning process.

Who knows, maybe a better price can be negotiated if it is not on a Saturday night - the busiest time of week. From Greg's point of view (and mine as well) this is just for information purposes only.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:24 pm 
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Carmila wrote:
Hollis DZC wrote:
gman666 wrote:
Fine delete the thread. It was just a poll to get everyone's opinion. The purpose of this thread was to discuss in the open. Since when did this become a dictatorship with no room for discussion.


When you skipped the part about discussion and went straight to changing the dinner.


Ok, guys, lets put the brakes on here. This is just a poll to see a time and date. This doesn't mean that it is being moved at all. I know there are times that are tradition or better for others, but opening up a discussion with a poll is not a bad idea. It is just information that helps in the planning process.

Who knows, maybe a better price can be negotiated if it is not on a Saturday night - the busiest time of week. From Greg's point of view (and mine as well) this is just for information purposes only.


With all due respect, usually discussion precedes a poll. Personally, I'd like to eat at 6pm on Saturday, I hate having to wait that long! It's the fan table staffing rule that has us eating so late.
Again, as for changing the night, it prevents others from attending, as they are going to other traditionial dinners, again, the Colonial Fleet's BSG dinner. A number of Marines attend this dinner . There is no one way to please everyone. It's a huge logistical nightmare.
Furthermore, this poll doesn't take into account again, of how long we have to have the fan table staffed. That's why we have the dinner start when we do.

We get the fan table staffing rules changed, we can have dinner earlier on Saturday night.

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 Post subject: Re: VOTE FOR DRAGON CON 2015 MARINE MEAL DAY/TIME
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:25 pm 
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I say keep the day and time when it is. Aside from the fan table, some members have booths at Dragoncon and can't leave until the dealer hall closes.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:10 am 
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Just to clarify, the Colonial Fleet private party/family meeting is Sunday night. The Dinner is usually Thursday I believe. :)

Those few of us with dealer room requirements have a heck of a time getting to ANYWHERE before 7:30-8pm, but that's the
price we have to pay.

We've organized other dinners/meet-ups on a different date because Saturday has most always been the Legacy dinner.

Just adding a different perspective.

And to take Rex's point, discussion usually is discussion. A poll suggests changes being made.

How many people have had issues with the dinner date/time in the past? I'm not organizing said
dinner, but I've also not heard anyone saying anything like "Our 15 friends can't come because of
event XYZ being the same time." :)

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 Post subject: Re: DISCUSSION FOR DRAGON CON 2015 MARINE MEAL DAY/TIME?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:22 am 
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One time I couldn't attend the Dinner due to a photoshoot.

Just to clarify, I would MUCH rather eat dinner earlier and get back out onto the Con floor earlier.

I talked to my DragonCon contact, explained the situation- we are obligated to 40hrs of manning the fan table.

But, leaving a "We'll be back" note on the table and having an earlier dinner is "perfectly fine."

So, that can satisfy our fan table requirements, our dealer comrades and have an earlier dinner too.

And the Discussion continues...

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:11 am 
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For the record, I think Greg has been unfairly jumped upon here.

If Greg ( Or anyone ) had started a discussion thread, with no poll; What would have happened?
He'd have stated that some people would rather not have the meal on Saturday night, others would have come back with "But we WOULD!", and we'd have come to the inevitable conclusion that the only fair way to resolve the debate would be with... A poll.


For the record, I myself mentioned to a few people that I would maybe like to see it moved - And was told in no uncertain terms that "You are still a Dragoncon newbie. the meal always has been Saturday nights, and always will be. Don't even start a discussion about moving it."
I find such a response pretty insulting, but chose to let it go, because I couldn't be bothered with the hassle of following it up.

However, now Greg has asked the question - I think it does need answered.
I strongly feel that "Because it's always been on Saturday" is a pretty flimsy reason for having the meal on a Saturday - The group of people attending Dragoncon that might wish to attend the Marine Meal is a fair bit larger now than it was only 3 or 4 years ago, and a fair chunk of the people who attend now have never been asked "When would you like the Marine Meal to be?".

I'm not voting yet, because I'm not certain if I'm up for even attending the meal in 2015 ( For reasons not directly relevant to this thread ) - But I would very much like to think that if I DO decide to attend, the time and place of the meal will have been decided in a fair and democratic manner.

Before this thread goes any further, out of curiosity; how would you guys who are saying "It shouldn't even be discussed" react if the poll WAS to show a majority of people here wanted to eat on, say, Sunday evening instead of Saturday?
Would you honour the wishes of the majority, or simply ignore them, and press ahead with the Saturday meal regardless?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:38 am 
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Scapey wrote:


Before this thread goes any further, out of curiosity; how would you guys who are saying "It shouldn't even be discussed" react if the poll WAS to show a majority of people here wanted to eat on, say, Sunday evening instead of Saturday?
Would you honour the wishes of the majority, or simply ignore them, and press ahead with the Saturday meal regardless?


What you would get is those who have other commitments on the other nights, simply not be able to attend.

Why, out of curiousity, do you want to move it from Saturday?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:51 am 
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Because I and a few others have found of late that there are quite a few potential clashes on Saturday night - And it also makes for a VERY long day to have the Parade, then the Colony Sweep, then the Meal, all in regimented order on one day of the Con.

I think it would be fairest to have a poll like this every year, to see what the majority would prefer - And if the consensus is to have the meal at a time I find I can't attend, then so be it.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:03 am 
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Well, I guess that if people want it on another date/time, then that's what will happen no matter what has been done in the past.

It's not that important in the grand scheme of things to lose sleep over, in my opinion, but I guess I am curious why the sudden change.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:28 am 
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Not sure how any change could be anything other than "Sudden"?
I'm now told that a few folk would have liked to have brought this up last year, but only got talking to each other about the idea relatively close to Con time, so it was too late for 2014 anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: DISCUSSION FOR DRAGON CON 2015 MARINE MEAL DAY/TIME?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:05 am 
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Again, while it's been USCM Tradition to have it on Saturday Night, it sounds like you prefer it on any night other than Saturday, regardless of whether it starts earlier or not.

Again, others have things planned on Friday and Sunday Nights, Nights that were rescheduled with other groups so the USCM had Saturday Night.

But, if you have something going on Saturday Nights, that you would prefer re-arranging the USCM Annual Dinner so you can do both, keep in mind that not all think re-arranging what has worked for years is a good thing.

We've all had to miss this event and that event at DragonCon. It's inevitable, with sooooo many groups, so many desires, so many to keep happy.

Saturday for many of us, has been Colonial Marine Day- the Parade, the Sweep, finished up by the Dinner. Many of us enjoy this and are resistant to changing it. Because if it's changed, many will not be able to attend.

But, let us discuss.

Open Minded to Both Sides. Fair Enough?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:16 pm 
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Right now, I'm arguing for "Let's vote on it, and see what the majority feel", as opposed to "Let's move it".
Once we've established what would happen if a vote did result in the majority wanting to move the meal time, I'll shift gears and think about the actual logistics of the meal, and whether I'd even attend. I'm not gonna waste breath/fingerskin with a full-on argument for a move, when there's a chance I wouldn't even be there ( Aside from a few personal reasons, there are certain bands that if they play at Dragoncon, I'm not missing them for anything! )

Bear in mind, I thought about suggesting a move, and didn't, for the reasons stated above.
But Greg and others clearly feel that the Saturday is too full - So it's not just myself and Greg that you're talking to here. For whatever reasons, the other people have kept quiet for now - I think the best thing is to sit back for a bit, and see where the poll goes.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:02 pm 
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Quote:
I think the best thing is to sit back for a bit, and see where the poll goes.


Good call.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:15 pm 
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Scapey wrote:
Right now, I'm arguing for "Let's vote on it, and see what the majority feel", as opposed to "Let's move it".
Once we've established what would happen if a vote did result in the majority wanting to move the meal time, I'll shift gears and think about the actual logistics of the meal, and whether I'd even attend. I'm not gonna waste breath/fingerskin with a full-on argument for a move, when there's a chance I wouldn't even be there ( Aside from a few personal reasons, there are certain bands that if they play at Dragoncon, I'm not missing them for anything! )

Bear in mind, I thought about suggesting a move, and didn't, for the reasons stated above.
But Greg and others clearly feel that the Saturday is too full - So it's not just myself and Greg that you're talking to here. For whatever reasons, the other people have kept quiet for now - I think the best thing is to sit back for a bit, and see where the poll goes.



I'm just wondering again, as to "Why?" as I understand it, there's bands that you'd like to see as well as something else that's happening during dinner time? I, along with others, feel strongly about keeping Saturday, Colonial Marine Day / Night, so I think it's worth "wasting breath / fingerskin" over.

If there is something else any Marine wants to attend that Saturday Night, no one is telling them that they can't go.
For example, Rob and Lottie Slater last year skipped the dinner to attend another function.
I skipped the dinner once to attend another function.

None of us asked to switch the dinner because we wanted to do something else.

Again, as I've said before, DragonCon is huge, with many, many costuming groups all vieing for our attention, our time. It's very difficult to try and attend them all. Been there, done that.

Many Marines have rearranged other groups schedules several years ago, around the Colonial Marines Saturday Dinner. Moving the dinner now tells them, that they can't go. They may not have a choice, they may be organizing it.

That's why I keep asking: "Why do you want to move the day??" You've said "It's too full".

When I didn't attend the dinner, during that time span, the hotel's are nearly empty. Why? Because everyone is eating dinner!

If you or yours wants to attend another group's function,for example, that's one thing. Do so. Alternate Dinners, one one year, another the next. But to move our function, to accomodate another group's function, again, for example, that's just not right.

Again, I'm not suggesting that's your rationale behind wanting to not just eat at an earlier time slot, but to move the entire function to a different evening. It's a guess when you say: "Saturday is too full".

It's an assumption that's easy to come to.

So, why should the Colonial Marine Dinner be moved to a different Night??

We are working to have the Dinner start earlier, which involves not staffing the fan table during that time. So everyone can eat earlier and get back to costuming earlier.

Which was also listed by Greg as a choice.

What is happening during Saturday's too full period that warrants the Colonial Marines moving their Traditional Saturday Night Dinner?

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:14 pm 
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Carmila wrote:
Who knows, maybe a better price can be negotiated if it is not on a Saturday night - the busiest time of week.
Realistically speaking, I think we'd have to move the dinner to Wednesday night for any kind of price negotiation.

There isn't much more that I can state that Rex hasn't already written. I am vehemently opposed to a change of day, I am open to the possibility of an earlier time.

If the popular voice says that we move it, than I will abide with the will of the people. However, I expect a participation of at least 80% of the usual attendees to vote on this for there to be a change. Furthermore, a poll open to anyone, including people who don't normally attend D*Con, is not a terribly good tool, in my opinion. We should have an open opinion poll with each person stating their suggestion.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:32 pm 
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For me if im honest id rather it stay as is soley because if you change it because certain people are going to miss events taking place on the Saturday night then its going to be no different than the people that will miss events if its changed to another night, someone is going to miss out no matter what

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:27 pm 
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Like I already said - Right now, I'm not engaging in a debate about why I might or might not want to move the meal.
And, again, if the consensus is to keep it on Saturday night, then that's fine.
I feel, however, that if more people DO wish to move it than don't - For whatever reasons they have for holding that opinion - Then it should be moved.

And to clarify - What I meant by "Saturday is too full", isn't "There are other things on on Saturday night"... It's more that having all three major Colonial Marine-related activities in the same day, and that one with an extremely early start, may be one reason for some to wish to move the meal.
This is conjecture - Until the other folk who wanted a move speak up, I can't say for sure what their reasons are.
For me, there is nothing in particular happening on Saturday night that I know of...

To be honest, the main reason I even posted here was the response Greg got to even asking the question.
I found it pretty offensive myself to be told "Don't even suggest it", and seeing how much flak he got for it - Including the request to delete the thread entirely, which I find really insulting - was what spurred me into backing him up.

We're supposed to be a group of adults, and therefore we should be able to discuss things like this without it devolving into a bunfight.
You guys have now given your reasons for wanting the dinner to remain unchanged - Maybe the repeated posts vehemently stating why and using CAPS AND BOLD!!! are intimidating others into keeping their heads down, as it were?

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 Post subject: Re: DISCUSSION/POLL FOR DRAGON CON 2015 MARINE MEAL DAY/TIME
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:20 pm 
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Not to get your knickers in an uproar Steve, but why don't you just mention me by name instead? If you like, we can certainly take this to the rest of the mods.

As I stated, and have had Russ and Dom back me up, we need to DISCUSS FIRST, BEFORE A POLL. Don't like Caps? Or Bold, then my error. Something of this magnitude should be talked about first, not just "hey let's move the dinner, here's some choices we can move it too." It makes it seem like it is happening in fact, rather than being a proposal. Which is I posted in the Mods Only Forum about it, something you felt like telling the entire group. To what end, Steve? Certainly didn't want to discuss it in private, did you?

No reason to move it other than for the sake of moving it? Hey, now there's a reason.

Greg, I meant no offense, and for any that did occur, my apologies. It was a difficult morning, undergoing a painful nitrogen procedure on my noggin, which left me a bit cranky. I may have been a bit over-direct in my commentary.

I do take seriously the Colonial Marines and as Dom said, vehemently disagree with a move. Some of us like the Tradition of Parade, Sweep and Dinner on Saturday.

Greg had in his proposal a earlier Sat. Dinner start, something Steve, you've chosen not to discuss. Only Moving it away from Saturday. A move for no apparent reason, other than it being a long day. Steve, DragonCon is full of Long Days and Nights!

So Steve, we have diametrically opposing viewpoints. You've said you only posted to stick up for Greg, because I gave him flak. Well Steve, I'm sure sorry you feel that way, and that caps and bold were intimidating.

I have apologized to Greg. I'm sorry that you felt the comments weren't adult, perhaps that's why you felt to mention a mod thread? That's certainly adult like, now isn't it?

So, just to clarify, I've apologized to Greg for speaking so strongly in bold intimidating caps, you've felt the need to mention a mod thread, something that is supposed to be only for mods.

That about sum it up?

Now, you want to move the dinner because there is too much Colonial Marine activity during the day? Is that correct?

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