OK this is a bit off Aliens related, but as there are several people on here that make props and mould them up, maybe one of you guys can help me with this question.

Some time ago I was running my own business and I had someone (not a member on here) make a master model and make the moulds and cast a few of these up ... now I paid this guy to do this, make the master, moulds etc..

So the question is this; do I own the moulds and the master? (Bear in mind that these moulds are sitting in his garage)

Could I ask for these to be shipped to me or even sell them to someone else?

I know copyright in Garage kits is a grey area... so can anyone help ?

Thanks

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Pfc Glenn Allen ,
1st Batt. 69th Regiment,
Homers Hero's..
Drops so Far.... 29 and counting

That all depends on your deal. I know for me, when someone has asked me to make and mold something for them, we work the "after effects" out before we close the deal. If you want to keep the original and the molds and the casts, it obviously costs more. If you want just the first few castings, it costs less, but the molds are mine and I can do what I want with them. Usually I'll give the person 6 months to a year before I start offering copies to other people, but again, that gets worked out in the initial deal.

If you never worked out that deal, then sadly, possession generally becomes ownership. So if he made the molds and still has the molds, and you have nothing in writing that says the molds go back to you, then he keeps them and they're his.

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-Spat

Hi Glenn,
as Spat has already said if this wasn't all thrashed out and preferably confirmed in writing then it is very much a grey area and the "possession is nine tenths of the law" comes into play.

However I was once in a similar situation a few years back with a guy I paid to make moulds from my masters and to vacuum cast items from the moulds. After I received the first batch of castings they were of such poor quality I complained and in a huff he refused to rectify his poor casting and more or less threw his toys out of the pram and told me to take my moulds away!

I guess it really depends what your relationship is like with the other party you could try a polite enquiry and see what response you get or if you are already aware that relations are not good then try a slightly more legal sounding bluff write him a formal letter stating that they are your property and you wish them to be sent to you or to a third party purchaser if you prefer! Worst case scenario is he calls your bluff and says No!

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Cheers

Winch

"Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow I shall fear no evil for thou art with me. And together we'll kick ANY bugs ASS!"
You know who you are!

I would hope to think that by paying the guy to make them, his charges would of included materials. In that case I would say that the whole lot is yours.

If you bought a kitchen from Wikes they'd build it and install it, then your the owner of the product. I can't imagine it's any different.

He could actually be waiting to get rid of them, who knows!
Assuming you haven't already; just ask

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AKA: Simon

If Customer A commissions Individual / Company B make a master model/moulds, on receiving full payment those items become the full property of Customer A

That's the way it works in film/tv and industrial design.

Glenn, technically the master model/ moulds are yours, but receipts/ paper work confirming details of commissioned work and payment would support this in your favour.

As Spat stated, without this, the mould maker can make fair claim of possession on them.

I have to disagree. If you order custom cabinets, and in the process of making them the company custom sculpts special knobs for the cabinets and makes a mold and casts them, you get the knobs, not the molds. Again, unless that was specifically discussed before starting.

And all the movies I've ever made custom items for, I've not only kept the molds afterwards, but I retained the items I made from them. It's rare that a production wants to pay the extra cost to keep the items at the end, let alone the molds. When setting it up, I offer one price for me to make everything and they keep everything, another price for them to keep the items, but I keep the molds, and a third price where I keep everything. So far, only one production has paid the extra money to keep the items, no one has wanted to pay the extra money to keep the molds.

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-Spat

But could UK law on these thing be different to US law?

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SSgt Kris "Bloodsucker" Kobus, VAS.
A09/TQ2.0.12136E1

Generally in US law, anything not specified in a contract goes to the person spending the money. But, there's also the issue here of possession, which goes to whomever has the molds, and then there's the issue here of the fact that I'm pretty sure these guys didn't have a contract. I think this was more of an unwritten agreement, and that's a different story which usually goes to the possessor. But then again, my law classes were taken 20+ years ago and I was usually pretty hung over.

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-Spat

I didn't see that this was in the UK. My bad. But it's probably still the same issues. I wasn't really thinking about the lawsuit part of this, I thought we were just figuring out the moral, fair and "right" part.

The fact is, he can't really sue, since neither of them own the copyright. You can't go into court with unclean hands to sue over an illegal act. That's like suing your drug dealer because he short-changed you, or suing a hitman because you paid them to kill your wife and he only wounded her. Since making those copies for a profit is illegal to begin with, I can't see how he can legally fight to get the molds back.

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-Spat

ok ... before we get tangled up legal arguments , i was asking a general question , because it comes down to this , although i paid the guy for his work etc... i figured i own the moulds , but as was never able to sell these kits ( i still have 3 of these sitting in a box waiting for someone to buy one .... no one seems to want a 2 foot BSG MK2 viper )

they have been gathering dust for at least 3 years now , so i am planning on calling it a day , and e-mail the guy and tell him , he can do what he wants with the moulds , if he want to try and sell these then i have no problem with that .. unless people on here want a MK2 Viper kit

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Pfc Glenn Allen ,
1st Batt. 69th Regiment,
Homers Hero's..
Drops so Far.... 29 and counting

I want one! I just can't afford them.

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-Spat

Same here! Desperate for one, just a bit too pricey for me

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M/SGT Rich Hyatt-Dowling (Retd)

UKCM Black ops

Spat if you want maybe we do a trade ?

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Pfc Glenn Allen ,
1st Batt. 69th Regiment,
Homers Hero's..
Drops so Far.... 29 and counting

Rich if you want one we could work something out .. i would be prepared to take payment in installments if it helps

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Pfc Glenn Allen ,
1st Batt. 69th Regiment,
Homers Hero's..
Drops so Far.... 29 and counting

Trades always work for me....

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-Spat

I'm in the aerospace industry and we get similar situations-

We are contracted to build an actuator or gearbox set that includes huge amounts of custom built test rig, jigs and tooling as part of the overall design package.

Depending on the arrangement with the customer at the start point, this is either 100% ours, 100% the customers or some mix of the two.

When the programme of work ends, the jigs and tooling revert to the ownership of the party named in the original contract

Some of the older contracts have changed hands on the ownership front so many times that the old contract is to all intents worthless- so we simply send an e-mail or letter to our customer stating the following:
1.We have tooling that by rights belongs to you that we have no further use for and is taking up usable/chargeable space in plant.
2. If you wish to retain the tooling, please arrange for collection/shipping at your cost by date XXXX- indicate by return e-mail
3. We intend to auction off the tooling to reinvest the cost- if you would prefer us to destroy the tooling, please indicate by return e-mail

Give 'em the option- often they say "Yeah, whatever". Sometimes they say "Provide proof of destruction", which is standard with military and dual-use kit.

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2nd Lt Jon "Jaylo" Lopez
A11/TQ1.0.72144E1
USCM Quality Assurance Division- Aerospace and Space Products- Earth
"Checklists Save Lives- No Service Stations at 30,000ft"

the only thing i would be interested in is a set of armour ... but i think that would be pushing my luck
unless you would let me have a set ... raw ...I.E . unpainted and unbuilt ?

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Pfc Glenn Allen ,
1st Batt. 69th Regiment,
Homers Hero's..
Drops so Far.... 29 and counting