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Glenn
 Post subject: loop hole in VCR..
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:04 pm 
I don't believe it!
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I do not know if this has been talked about but i found this on wolf armouries web site http://www.wolfarmouries.co.uk/airsoft/ ... p2#noukara

if this is right then its a big loop hole in the law....but it makes it easier for us to buy airsoft... or am i missing something?

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Pug50
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:08 pm 
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It's debatable whether the term is "Loophole", as the colour provisions are a clause in the law.

It could be possible to make and freely sell a full size PR provided the shroud was bright green instead of BB or OD?
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Glenn
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:18 pm 
I don't believe it!
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when i meant loophole i was refering to the fact you don't need to be registered with an airsoft site or with UKARA.....

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DATA
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:51 pm 
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Service Number: A04/TQ8.0.24476E3
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You can buy a airsoft gun with out being a member of the UKARA but the only problem is that it got to be a bright colour gun.

So bright Pink, Red, Green, Blue and can not be that standard colours.

I hate to have a bright colour gun when trying to hide in the bushes!!!!

All black for me or nothing.

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skapunkninja
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:00 pm 
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it is a loophole. as long as your over 18, you can buy one. i know of alot of people who have bought on of these, and just resprayed it as soon as they got it home.
HOWEVER, if you spray it back to black, and get caught, your in big trouble! it counts as creating a realistic immitation firearm, and im pretty sure its a prison sentance for that.

its a huge grey area though

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Glenn
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:10 pm 
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just wondering if you buy a thompson what part of that is painted bright colours?

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Scapey
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:03 pm 
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Painting or permanently covering the bright sections of an IF is classed as "manufacturing a RIF".
Illegal unless you can avail yourself of the defence - ie. are over 18 and have a site membership.

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Glenn
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:27 pm 
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I understand that..but it seems that most guns that are brightly painted , it seems to be just the foregrip and stock, so if they did that to a thompson, you could build a PR without having to repaint it...?

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Mole
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:31 pm 
Victor
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Some people will see a gun no matter what colour it is - the same sort of people who won't let their kids play with water pistols.

Interesting idea though as I'd love to be able to get hold of an m16 as a base for my flamer.

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sixty
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:34 pm 
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The act of putting together a Pulse Rifle* is still classed as manufacture under the VCRB... A Pulse Rifle still looks like a firearm.


*(EDIT - Or a flamer! Or painting up one of Dom's VP70s, or building an M56, blah blah blah...)
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Glenn
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:40 pm 
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This law makes you want to bang your head against the wall... :lol:

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Mole
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:48 pm 
Victor
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Hehehe! Holding a table leg in a plastic bag is enough to get you shot in this country. :twisted:


I wonder what a PR would look like in pink?

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sixty
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:57 pm 
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Crazy aint it?

While I understand the reasoning behind trying to take RIFs out of the hands of people who'd misuse them, I don't see the reasoning behind also making it ridiculously difficult for responsible people to get hold of them or for still allowing things that can actually injure and kill to be sold without restriction, such as air rifles... :roll:
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Eagle
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:13 pm 
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'Realistic Imitation Firearm' and 'Imitation Firearm' examples

An imitation Colt 1911 pistol in black would be considered a realistic imitation firearm. If it were principally bright red then it would be considered an imitation firearm.

It remains legal to purchase, import or manufacture replica firearms which have a specific resemblance to those replica props used in the movie industry i.e. Blade Runner, Aliens etc.

If an imitation firearm is less than 38mm in height and less than 70mm long it could not be considered to be a realistic imitation firearm, it would just be an imitation firearm. So if the Colt 1911 mentioned above was black, but only 60mm long, it would be considered an imitation firearm, not a realistic imitation firearm.

A quote not from that article.

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Mole
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:19 pm 
Victor
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Are there a lot of real firearms that are 7cm long?

Where did you find that quote? I find it hard to believe that it's legally sound. To us a PR is very obviously a prop but to the old granny at the post office its still a gun.

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punkmarine
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:43 pm 
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As anyone gone down the road of getting the UKCM registered as a re-enactment group or the like?

If that was possible wouldn't we as members be able to buy replicas/airsofts etc.?

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PVB
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:33 pm 
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Service Number: A08/TQ2.0.72136E1
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punkmarine wrote:
As anyone gone down the road of getting the UKCM registered as a re-enactment group or the like?

If that was possible wouldn't we as members be able to buy replicas/airsofts etc.?

If it costs money to do that I'll willingly chip in.

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punkmarine
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:41 pm 
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From the UKARA site FAQ

Who are UKARA ?

UKARA are a group of Airsoft retailers who have formed an association to protect their businesses and enable the sale of Realistic Imitation Firearms ( RiF's) to the newly restricted recognised and approved customers resulting from the Violent Crime Reduction Act (VCRA).

Why have they set up the UKARA Scheme ?

Under the new act it is the responsibility of the seller to verify that the purchaser is approved and they may be prosecuted if they fail to do this with due diligence.

How will the UKARA scheme do this ?

UKARA has set up an Independent Data Base which will be used to list eligible purchasers and allow UKARA retailer members to check sale recipients are bona fidi.

Who are the eligible purchasers ?

The only groups of persons now allowed to purchase RiF's are Film,TV, Museums, Theatres, Crown Servants, and persons engaged in Re-enactement activities, and airsoft skirmishing. All these purchasers must be over 18 years of age.

What must Re-enactment people and Airsoft players do to show the are bona fidi ?

Both these groups must show that their activities are covered by third party liability insurance and that they are over 18, in the case of Airsoft Players they must also show that they are regular players at an accredited game site. Which means they must be a member of a game site with the appropriate Airsoft Insurance cover.


So if the UKCM had some insurance (which, if not madly expensive, I'm sure we could all chip in for) it might be possible. :?

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Eagle
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:05 am 
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punkmarine wrote:
...Crown Servants...

What's the definition of a Crown Servant?

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punkmarine
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:12 am 
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Location: BIRMINGHAM/LICHFIELD UK
Service Number: A86/TQ3.4.49421E3
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To see if the UKCM could be classed as a re-enactment society it might be worth contacting these folks.

http://www.nares.org.uk/index.htm

Although they all seem 'Historic' based, the things you guys do at Cons/Drops etc. doesn't seem much different, except it is 'Futuristic' Sci-Fi film based. :?

And a lot of their provisions are met (and easily could be) by the UKCM Rules and Regs.

Might not be acceptable to them, but might be worth asking. :?

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punkmarine
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:13 am 
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Eagle wrote:
punkmarine wrote:
...Crown Servants...

What's the definition of a Crown Servant?

I was presuming military, police and the like (used for training purposes I think it says). :?

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sixty
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:48 am 
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"It remains legal to purchase, import or manufacture replica firearms which have a specific resemblance to those replica props used in the movie industry i.e. Blade Runner, Aliens etc."

I'd take exception to that line, chiefly because a local firearms officer I spoke to told me otherwise... As mole pointed out, Average Joe (whatever that is) might not know that an M41-A isn't a real firearm.

There is nothing in the bill or the specific exemptions that cover RIFs that resemble movie props being okay to sell, import or manufacture, and the bill is the law as it stands at the moment, unfortunately.
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Eagle
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:44 am 
Eagle nut!
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That was a joke (read the post!) ;) :P

Sick, I know... :twisted:

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sixty
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:47 am 
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You bad, bad man, you. :)
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Eagle
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:55 am 
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:oops: :D

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