Hi


Just joined site, and got my snow wolf pulse Rifle, the blue two one as was going for less then £200, on a site.
Resprayed it so far, next like to put a working shotgun on it, looking at the cheap £25 ones.
Also putting battery in the shroud handle if I can?

There's not much room in the shroud for a battery big enough to power the airsoft weapons.

Some fit one at the stock, or even attached to the webbing sling, wired to the gun.

Good luck with the build/mod though.

_________________
Steve
Corporal in 69th Regt. 1st Batt. Homer’s Heroes.

"I'd like to die at the age of 80 in my own bed, with a belly full of wine and a girl's mouth around my c**k."

Disclaimer: I'll just quietly point out as a warning to others that there are only a few situations where you can repaint a two-tone airsoft RIF in the UK and stay within the law.

Indeed. You are required to be UKARA registered. Interested to see how this goes.

_________________

Alien vs Predator Galaxy on Facebook - All Your Alien & Predator Needs on your Facebook wall!

I'm UKARA registered, was just cheaper to buy blue tone, but yes your right best to point it out.

I've seen Nobel under barrel mod, which may be a better idea.

You are NOT required to be UKARA registered.
You are required to be able to legally avail yourself of the specific defence provided within the Violent Crime Reduction Act.

The suggest method for this is to become a member of a legitimate Airsoft skirmish site.
UKARA is merely a database containing the details of those who ARE members, and who want retailers to have easy access to their details.
And some believe that Pulse Rifles do not count as RIFs - That is yet to be proven one way or the other.

_________________
MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

From what I understand, at my site been told, because the pulse rifle use's a Thompson that makes it a RIF, could be wrong but going with what rob who runs our site says.

Those who argue otherwise would say "But the Thompson is covered in a shroud, so it doesn't look like any actual real gun that exists".

To which I counter "Tell that to the ARU officer who has ammo 3mm wider than yours..."

_________________
MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

Hey, not ours, we've got .44mm on them!

FPS is a tad higher though!

_________________
MSgt Matt Bradley 'Crashdown' (Formerly Mattb)
A12/TQ2.0.82145E1
CO UKCM 13th Regt. 1st Batt. 'Freebooters'
"There are very few problems that cannot be solved through a suitable application of high explosives."

Especially when measured with a .2g round equivalent...

_________________
MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

Paraphrasing: 'An imitation firearm that, to a reasonable member of the public upon casual inspection, appears to be realistic'.
Well, at an actual military show, our guys were thought to be wearing some new version of body armour and carrying real weapons.

That's enough for me.

Hi Folks, New here so forgive my intrusion. As far as I know, regarding RIF's you can purchase them as a production/performance company, theatrical or film, or as someone involved in said industry. As public performers, which in theory you are, as you portray characters, you should be covered. However, proof of the company would have to be provided, such as ID cards, business address (if there is one for a headquarters) if asked. Though like everything else, it's upto the individual police officer (and airsoft retailer) if he/she accepts it, as the rulings are quite vague.

_________________
" I'm anispeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused you such pericombobulation."

Private
UKCM
42 rgmt, 1st Bttln,
Hadrian's Wall.

I was involved with the Airsoft side of the "interested parties" when the VRCB was being discussed back in 2006 or when ever it was.

We were informed by Baroness Anelay in response to our questions as to what defined a RIF, so this was from the Home Office.

The Legislation states...




Now, that's legal jargon and most people can't get a grip of it, so we asked for a laymans explanation.

And it was roughly as follows.

1: realistic... and a pulse rifle certainly looks real enough, and it's not a de-ac or an antique.

The main clincher are those bits described in part 2 and the curious set of double negatives in there is what makes it complicated.

1: Not by an Expert - From this you have to assume the mythical Mrs Miggins, the blind old lady who knows nothing about guns.
2: Not on Close Examination - From this you have to read, 'at a distance, and for a brief moment'.
3: Not as an attempt to load or fire it - So whether it's capable of firing a projectile or not.


So if the blind old gifford Mrs Miggins sees it for a brief moment and thinks it's a gun, then for the purpose of the legislation then it is.
The Pulse Rifle certainly falls into this category and it is something we all need to be aware of.

Inappropriate use in a public place can land you in serious hot water. So user caution is advised at all times.

Whether as members of the UKCM or other such clubs acting in a 'promotional' or 're-enactment' role, you fall under the specific defences as defined under the regulation.....



.... is really a massive grey area and one that would need to be tried as a Case Law for this specific crime.
To date, I know of NOT ONE incident where such a need has arisen.

But in all truth, no-one knows whether any of us could actually claim that part as a defence?

The reality is that the VCRA was such a large bit of knee jerk legislation in response to a number of 'firearm' related incidents at the time, and one that did nothing to address the actual problem, but looked largely like the government were doing something whilst they did as little as possible. It is so very full of holes and is such a low level issue that the Local Constabulary are very unlikely to do anything about it.... (and I am a former Police Constable).
But you must always be mindful that the legislation exists, and it is something they can fall back on should they wish to knobble you for something.
It is interesting to note that the UK Government dismissed the notion of a carpet ban on Airsoft weapons because to have done so would have raised the issue of compensation to the owners of previously legitimately held items, and it was deemed too costly to do so!


Being able to avail yourself of the Skirmishers defence (or re-enactors one) is currently the safest and securest way of saying you are covered when painting two tone rifles.

Mr Fletcher is correct when he says the UKARA thing is a bit of a misnomer.
You just have to be able to prove you are a legitimate skirmisher. How you go about this is entirely your own choice, but the easiest method is to be on the UKARA database.
Despite the fact that Customs and the Police have no physical way of checking this themselves and would probably have to go through the database administrator (Graham) or the site owner where that person is registered.


Completely irrelevant to his build.... but an interesting yarn non the less.



Oh, and I must stress that the above relates purely to the commission of an offence under Sec 36 1b




The misuse of any firearm, be it a Realistic Imitation, Imitation or Deactivated, in a public place or directed at a member of public is another kettle of fish entirely and you'll be committing an offence no matter whether you are a skirmishers, actor or the Queen of Sheba!

_________________
You don't have to be pitilessly sadistic to work here.... But it helps.
http://www.chefs-creations.co.uk/shop/index.php/colonial-marine

http://www.kgbairsoft.com/wordpress

Much of the requirements involve being an official organisation of some kind. That means AGMs, structure and all, but above everything else - Public Liability Insurance. AFAIK, we don't really have that as we're still technically a bunch of private individuals when we go out to a Drop.

Much of the requirements involve being an official organisation of some kind. That means AGMs, structure and all, but above everything else - Public Liability Insurance. AFAIK, we don't really have that as we're still technically a bunch of private individuals when we go out to a Drop.[/quote]


That's true enough. But as individual performers it's still a legitimate reason, without the need for AGM's etc. As long as there is proof that what you are doing is performance. Which it is. So, date/times/location, all of which are easily checkable.

You/we are all actors in public theatre:). A letterhead letter with a 'base' address, I.D./business cards (a good way of getting your marine/dogtag number and rank out there, as it is on a database so could in theory be checked if needed) should be enough. Public liability insurance is needed more so if the weapons are going to be used and there's a chance of public injury, such as at a re-enactment. And beyond one of the guns bonking into some myopic m.o.p. as they walk past there's not much chance of injury. And if there's insurance at an event like a con, it's possible you're already covered, but that's on a case by case I think?

Anyway, just a thought about a way to maybe help those who don't necessarily want to ever attend an airsoft event or three in order to be put on the ukara database and are just interested in performing as a marine.

_________________
" I'm anispeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused you such pericombobulation."

Private
UKCM
42 rgmt, 1st Bttln,
Hadrian's Wall.

As I mentioned in my post...

it is a MASSIVE grey area, that isn't covered within the statute, or within the guidance notes at all.

The whole trooping thing 'may' well fall into that category, or the courts may just think we're a bunch of weirdos brandishing replica firearms!
It will come down to a court case for them to make the ruling and then it will be added in as case law.

It may never happen because for the most part we are responsible adults and go about things in the proper fashion.
The VCRA was introduced when a rash of Air-Rifle and Blank Firing/De-Ac related crime was floating about, and seeing as they couldn't legislate much further against those, and they needed to be seen to be doing something in order to gain some voter brownie points, RIF's were the next target.

At the time, the costuming community were either ignorant of the potential repercussions or felt that it wouldn't bother them because they did not organise and form a 'stakeholder' status when the consultation process was announced.
Thus they find themselves in the GREY area they are in today.

The Re-enactors nearly missed the boat, but they got themselves a good deal and got their stuff written into the statute whereas the airsofters only managed a defence under regulation. Which is much easier to revoke by the government.
But everything is largely self policing and is working a treat.


I personally don't think anything will ever come of it, but all it takes is one donkey to jump out on the unsuspecting Mrs Miggins at a con, give her a heart attack, she drops down dead and suddenly all eyes are turned towards said costuming group and their GUNS of DEATH in a Daily Mail infused frenzy!

Would you like to be that test case in court?? That's what you have to ask yourself.

Me, I'd rather just be sensible in the mean time.


But it's certainly not the biggest loophole in the Legislation... that's for sure.

_________________
You don't have to be pitilessly sadistic to work here.... But it helps.
http://www.chefs-creations.co.uk/shop/index.php/colonial-marine

http://www.kgbairsoft.com/wordpress

Just read your post chef, and yep, it's a huge grey area. Even working for 16 years in the theatrical/performance industry, as a fight performer/actor, it's still a pain to persuade a retailer that I'm legit. No problems when it comes to blank firers ,just airsoft. However, even that might change depending on the recent actions in edinburgh of a 're-enactor' apparently firing off blank period weapons in public.

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" I'm anispeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused you such pericombobulation."

Private
UKCM
42 rgmt, 1st Bttln,
Hadrian's Wall.

Yet another RIF-legislation arguement...
As Pike already said he's exempt:

PIKE: Any more progress?

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AKA: Simon

That's funny Chef, this is the exact conversation we were having on Saturday night.. If you can buy the normal pulse rifle, you're fine to repaint the blue one, and best of luck to you if you can convince an airsoft retailer to sell to you based on the other stuff..

More importantly Pike, nice work, and a great start! It'll probably be a lot of work to mount a cheap shotgun inside there, You'll need to find somewhere to stick a lipo.. it'll look the business if you can get it to work though!

_________________
Sgt. Jake Tucker - 13th Regt. 1st Batt. Freebooters.

If you believe that, go ahead and try it out.
At best we are street performers and even then, that's extremely tenuous. Even street performers require licences in most places now. Cops will at least move you on if you don't have one.

TBH, I think you'll find the theatrical defense would only apply to professionally established productions with planned and scripted (a key aspect) display pieces, supported by H&S assessments and PLI. About the only activity that is described as such is our NSC event. For the rest of it, we just walk around looking all Space Mariney. I don't believe we're even covered by the event host's insurance at all, beyond what any other member of the public has.

If 'performance' is our only defence, I'd certainly want no part of it.

You need to be an established organisation with proper M&AA, H&S regs and so on.
Who is our chairman?
Who is our treasurer?
Secretary?
H&S officer?
Where are our accounts filed?
Oh, a 'not-for-profit' group? Still need accounts and proof of all that.

Truth is, we are members of the public gathering together in fancy dress. Nothing more.


There is *always* a chance of public injury - Someone trips into you, a nutter jumps the barrier and charges you, or something.
Here's a case example - An 8 year old boy was left home while his parents went out. He was locked in the house. He went upstairs, broke the double-glazed window, gout out and went down to the ground, ran across three normal roads, one A-Road and one Motorway. He then entered Network Rail property by scaling two six-foot chain-link fences a brick wall and another chain-link topped by barbed wire, before finally going through a gate, getting onto the train tracks and electrocuting hinself stone dead. That gate had been padlocked, but the lock was rusty and hadn't quite closed completely when one of our contractor gangs was departing the site.
As a result, Network Rail sued both the gang and the contractor. The contractor went bankrupt from the penalty costs and every single member of the gang who was on site that day was sentenced to six months in prison.

Re-enactors still need PLI even if they're just displaying inert weapons from behind a barrier yards away from the public. Every single event needs an individual H&S assessment breakdown.
If one of our Aliens group hurts another, the hurt party is perfectly within their rights to sue the hurting individual and there's no legal comeback, no insurance, no nothing. It's no different to going up to a random person in the street and punching them in the face.
Even joining an Airsoft site, people sign disclaimers saying they know it's dangerous and won't sue the site if they hurt themselves while obeying site rules. Members don't sign anything when they join this Aliens group, we're not protected by any insurance or rules.

And then, to top it all off - what if your weapon is stolen?
What are our regulations covering securing and handling of these things and how are they enforced?
Members do this on good faith alone and if someone wanted to be an ASS(imilate), the group would have no protection whatsoever.

I stand corrected. Fair enough. I shut up.

_________________
" I'm anispeptic, frasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused you such pericombobulation."

Private
UKCM
42 rgmt, 1st Bttln,
Hadrian's Wall.

But if you do get stopped it helps if the copper is an Aliens fan

_________________
SSgt Kris "Bloodsucker" Kobus, VAS.
A09/TQ2.0.12136E1

I don't mean to sound like I'm stomping all over your ideas in this.
Just that this can be a fucking serious business - Having been on the receiving end of Armed Response units a number of times, thanks to both random dickheads (occasionally panicking, but more often being malicious) and also once being 'young and stupid', breaking firearms laws can be a fucking nasty experience.

Then there's the possibility of the press getting involved, which could decimate our own extremely good rep, impact on the forum here and costuming as a whole, not to mention jeopardise the events and attendance from future guests. Added to that is the lack of any legal precedents in this Act, so any legal defence we rely upon has to be as watertight as we can reasonably make it. If there's any doubt or if anyone can instantly open with, "It could be argued that...", then we could be in trouble.

If you look on the UKCM website, just about the only actual rules we have and enforce are those covering weaponry in public. Firearms is the one area where things can really go to hell in an instant here and we have to be SO careful.

Kris - who's that bloke in the background?

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"You know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water."

oh that's Victor, nice fellow actually

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SSgt Kris "Bloodsucker" Kobus, VAS.
A09/TQ2.0.12136E1