The banner should be ahead of us in order to create further ambiguity.

Correct, we march off as a group. But once around that first corner are we still seen as one group?
We all know we're one group. I'm sure the vast majority at Dragon Con know we're one group but the parade is more than just Dragon Con.

Now I am 'for' carrying the banner in front of the group to signify all those between this banner and the next are in our group.
This can however 'take away' from the color guard, but we're still a costuming group costuming as USCM (both color guard and those in armor).
However 'the convention parade staff' has us lead off with the color guard so this may be bigger than our group and be a convention staff decision utilizing what we have to offer to make the parade 'better'.

I'm understanding needing everyone in the group to be in an Aliens related costume and thank you for pointing out the obvious 'inconsistency' I asked about....my bad for completely spacing on that.

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That could be a dangerous route - The Colo(u)r Guard may have been chosen to lead the parade, but it's still very much part of the Aliens costuming group ( AL/U*CM, however you wanna refer to us ).
If you try to separate the two into distinct entities, we could end up being told "Good idea! We'll have flag-bearers from all fandoms up there! So let's have one Marine, maybe a Stormtrooper, a Master Chief - Do we even need to keep it military-looking? Stick some Time Lords in there, and some Ghostbusters! Hey, Homestuck is popular, let's have some Trolls with flags too!"

Hell, how about some full fur-suited Bronies?

I know that that's a strawman argument, and an exaggerated one at that, but I'm using it to make a point.

As far as I'm concerned, the Color Guard is an Aliens group. Subgroup if you like, but it's ours.
If D*Con decide they want someone else leading the parade, be it real soldiers/Marines or pretend, or something completely different, then that's their call. I'd be pretty pissed off if the suggestion came from anyone here, though!
I would rather see the Color Guard intact and further back in the parade if D*Con wanted to give someone else a turn, than have it be messed with.

Once more, it comes down to:

We're an Aliens group.
We wear Aliens related costumed.
Not wearing one? Not marching with the group.

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MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

I couldn't disagree more...



That's a slippery slope fallacy. Not so much a strawman.

Dammit, G :p
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN!

_________________
MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

I might get my ass kicked by giving my 2 cents but here goes...

Okay for the record, I've seen photos and some videos of the color guard and I have to say it looks cool and I see nothing you guys are doing that would appear disrespectful and that I know some of you guys have actually been in or are currently in the military. That being said I question the whole idea of 'dress uniform' costumes for Aliens Legacy. In Aliens you only get to see a brief scene where Gorman is in a dress outfit when meeting with Ripley, the rest of the time it's futuristic combat gear.

Wouldn't it be far simpler to discontinue the dress outfit concept and stick to camo and armor? You could still march in formation with flags-but it would vastly cut down the opportunities for misunderstandings with real world vets and servicemen who might not have seen the movie and wonder who you are. I've also seen footage of some of you running around in bdu outfits out of armor at conventions and I wonder if there might be a possibility of misunderstandings on that level as well.

In other words I think it should be set up like this, you can only be part of the group if you're 'fully dressed' with armor, pulse rifle etc which everyone can see isn't the same stuff our armies use today. That or be in another aliens related costume (Alien, Bishop, Nostromo crew etc) that won't be confused with current military equipment. There shouldn't be any misunderstandings then.

Just my opinion, I've never been in the military myself, the only 'combat experience' I have is I did some martial arts stuff a decade ago (got a cool broken nose in the process. )
I do have a father who is a Vietnam veteran (U.S. Army Core of Engineers) who is a truly great man
and I wouldn't ever want to do anything in my Aliens fandom to disrespect his service.
Just my thoughts on the issue.

Which makes me think-perhaps if I ever go to one of these things myself, I'll go as Bishop!

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When in doubt-fry the place from orbit!

There's been more or less a group decision that only service or dress uniformed Colonial Marines would be in the CG, now that we have a sufficent available members.

And no furry bronies in the CG, that's my input.

And I could not agree more.
The color guard 'IS' part of the Aliens Legacy, that is without question or debate.
I'm simply saying that the parade staff when asked 'are we leading the parade again' have said 'oh yes we love the color guard'.
Based on that the color guard 'may' be seen differently by the parade staff than by us BUT the color guard is part of the Aliens Legacy so the decisions on what goes on still stay with us.
I should have worded that better, my apologies.
I'm still concerned about the banner identifying us all as a fictional military being 'behind' the color guard, but the libertarian in me says 'it's a convention parade, not a holiday parade such as July 4th or Christmas'.
If an issue with that arises we can deal with it

If Aaron 'cannot' be part of the USCM color guard 'unless' he wears his USMC yet wearing his USMC in the color guard is causing issues with other USMC personnel then I ask;
Aaron, do you have an issue with limiting your parade participation to avoid future issues with USMC personnel?

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It's a little bigger than "If the banner is behind the CG, the CG won't be recognized as being a part of the AL."

The fact is "nobody" and I mean nobody on the streets of Atlanta sees the Colour Guard as USCM Srv C costumes.

They refer to the CG as "soldiers leading the parade."

Soldiers.

Not costumers. Not reenactors etc etc... Soldiers (Marines, whatever).


As impressive as the CG has become, people thinking we are soldiers (or even play acting soldiers) is not a good thing. The problem is that while we have done our best to "get it right", we are still modifying (real military) protocol to suit our needs when it comes to the CG. And we tend to catch hell when we do it wrong by accident or design.


The banner needs to be ahead of the CG. I'm starting to think that even the D-Con organizers don't get the point of the CG as being with the AL, and see it as a seperate entity done in the spirit of military support/pride.


But make no mistake that everyone viewing the Colour Guard sees soldiers and not "Gorman dress uniforms."



Kevin

_________________
I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

The only closest thing to a remedy to this is to put the banner in front of the CG.

Then people will know where the group starts and any confusion after that is on them and not us.

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I have no issue with this.

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MSgt, UKCM 42nd Reg., 1st Batt. : Hadrian's Wall. UKCM

Wasteland Workshop
Props, cosplay pieces, upcycled ornamentation, and miscellanea;
For the discerning survivor of the apocalypse.
Steve Fletcher : Maker, Scavenger, and Junksmith.
linktr.ee/wastelandworkshop

Im no expert on this so apologies if im wrong, but is it not also acceptable for the US flag to he carried to the right of a colour guard/flag party?

If so, how about carrying the Colonial Marines flag front and centre with the US flag off to the Right? Surely that would help define the CG as a fictional force, rather than a military group.

Edit -
US flag code, section 7

Position and manner of display

The flag, when carried in a procession with another flag or flags, should be either on the marching right; that is, the flag's own right, or, if there is a line of other flags, in front of the center of that 

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M/SGT Rich Hyatt-Dowling (Retd)

UKCM Black ops

We did that in 2008 I believe and were blasted for not having the US Flag "held higher than all other flags."

But again, anything we do aside from radically changing the look of our Service C costumes (which we are not going to do) is not going to change how the public perceives us. They think the CG is a tribute to the military.


You want to know how this all got started?

Back before 2006 we had no xenomorph costumers with our group. Everyone called us GI Joe, army guys, you name it. We had a small "Colonial Marines" banner (only two feet by three feet) but no flags.

So I believe we came up with the USCM flag to help our group be recognized as being from the movie Aliens. So that flag alone was carried in 2006 and 2007 up front, right behind our banner.

2008 rolls in and (with the passing of Chris and the UKCM making its debute at Dragon Con) we come up with the idea of a Flag party with the major nations represented (US, Canada, UK) and the USCM Flag in front.

However we were told we "got it wrong."

Anyway that same year we had the xenos from across the pond with us and everyone suddenly understood what the "army guys" actually were.


But the Colour Guard was a really cool thing so we kept at it making it bigger and better each year.

However it would seem that the purpose of carrying the USCM flag to promote recognition of our group being from the movie Aliens, has defeated itself by the Colour Guard growing to military size and look. The more we try to get it as accurate as possible, the more we stray from looking like Aliens characters and more towards genuine military servicemen (women).

We have Xenos now on a regular basis so the recognition thing is covered by them.


Don't take what I just said as a plea to disband the Colour Guard or something; just as heads up as to what the Colour Guard has become in the eyes of the public, and the irony of why we created it.


Kevin

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I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

What would happen if a number of members who are serving wanted to wear current real world Uniforms? then it most certainly would not be about Aliens anymore

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SSgt Kris "Bloodsucker" Kobus, VAS.
A09/TQ2.0.12136E1

How about if we had a xenomorph carry the American flag would that underline the point?

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Cheers

Winch

"Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow I shall fear no evil for thou art with me. And together we'll kick ANY bugs ASS!"
You know who you are!

You guys need to make an APC or Dropship float. Easy, right?

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My entry-level prop and costume tutorials: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12751

I 2nd this APC!

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Reformed Pacifist

Correct. And if we allow for one, then we would have to allow for all. I still can't understand how we let slip in one.

Serious recommendations only, please.

Dear Dom,
while my comment above was slightly tongue in cheek it was not intended as a frivolous. Also, by now, I would have expected that you would recognise my style of adding a smiley to the end of comments intended to inject humour? Since there isn't one and there is a question mark at the end this was a serious question, albeit mildly rhetorical, not a recommendation.

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Cheers

Winch

"Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow I shall fear no evil for thou art with me. And together we'll kick ANY bugs ASS!"
You know who you are!

I think it's infinitely clear by now that this is the one topic on the AL that I hold closely to my heart and treat it incredibly seriously. I recognize the light-hearted nature of the UKCM as a whole, but I would like this topic to be treated seriously, if at all possible. True, this is an open forum where everyone has been granted the right to inject their opinion, it is my hope that the suggestions were from those who would like to see the CG treated the same as I do.

I hope this clarifies my comment to you.

Just take joking comments with a grain of salt. What people say and suggest is completely different from what we'll actually do.

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Cowards hide behind keyboards



"Even a man that has nothing, can still give his life."

DHS
NYANG, MAJ Ret.

And just to be clear my comment about an APC wasn't a joke. Looking at the rest of the parade it's pretty clear that a float would be the best way to draw appropiate connections in people's minds and really make the group stand out. I know the logistics of making this happen are pretty daunting, but wouldn't it add a ton to the impressive character of the Honor Guard?

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My entry-level prop and costume tutorials: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12751

We've been talking about an APC years before you've ever come on to the scene. So, when I see someone mention an APC, it just brings up feelings of nostalgia over our beginnings.

That's awesome man, I'm glad my post had such a positive impact on you. I'm eager to see the results of your long years of planning on the APC!

_________________
My entry-level prop and costume tutorials: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12751