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So what would you have done different?
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Author:  Winch [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:19 am ]
Post subject:  So what would you have done different?
"I don't know if you've been keeping up on current events Pal, but we just got our asses kicked!"

So the question is picking up from the point where the remaining Marines etc abandon the wrecked APC what if anything would you have done differently if you were there?
Author:  the_rookie [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
i would have done the same thing as they did but i would have chosen a different spot to hide out in and at the same time i would have been looking for a dropship or other means of escape at the same time.
Author:  DOC VITO [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
1. APC was somewhat mobile: only blew the trans axle..move it to a safe lOCAL as a fall back: pref inside the facility
2. strip it: ESPECIALLY com AND up link gear...hard to believe they only had @40 rnds per M41A...the APC would have been balls deep in ammo for the primary man carried weapon as well as back up weapons...
3. GIVE FERRO AND SPUNKMEYER A FULL sitrep: (situation report : xenos)!!! THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN ON CALL FOR IMMEDIATE EXTRACTION AS SOON AS THE MARINES HAD HARD CONTACT, engaged AND WERE FALLING BACK. Also; they should have been buttoned up and strapped in; engines at IDLE once the MARINES Moved out to the ATMOS PROC. for the RESCUE RECON and OP...not cold Iorn and fucking off. Truth is they should have been AIRBORNE when the MARINES began there probe inside the ATMOS PROC.

4. TOO quick to abandon the APC...still had alot of asset.
5. Took too long talking it over: protocol would have been EVAC NOW.. your down more than 50% of sqaud capacity there is NO gainable tactical advatage or mission objective left GET OUT NOW...dont give the bugs a chance to get to the DROPSHIP: always protect your RIDE HOME...extraction.

6. POOR air-ground co-ordination: FERRO and SPUNKMEYER did not have the tactical picture, thus...they were dead meat.

THis is a good thread Winch.............thats Hollywood :lol:
Author:  DW [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
I'd of told spunkmeyer to shut the bloody door. the bloody door would of been shut, and as such, everyone left after the atmospheric processor would of survived, got a few medals, and went home.

Besides the bugs of course - They got nuked from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Author:  DOC VITO [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
Exactly Jake...just leave the ramp open, shut down and ....lets see if I get this right..."open a pop and a bag of crisps"...


allo allo....Mr. Xeno.... :xeno:


Bloody ejits...stupid wankers really...


"Doc" Vito
Author:  DW [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
It seems to me, that if you were touching down for a bit on a hostile planet, it'd be better for spunkmeyer not to go set outside in the wind, with the door open. I mean, Ferro would of got a terrible draft, before you even go into the fact that living the door wide open isn't the best way to keep a multimillion pound dropship safe.
Author:  the_rookie [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
and if you have a crewmen walk around outside give him a smartgun or something like that
Author:  DOC VITO [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
Right again Jake...obviously after the FLY-over...no comms ...no movement, no nothing....you would be "On High Alert...guns up eyes out"...the biggest boo boo was no COMS or Co-ordination between AIR and GROUND. The UD-4L was useless sitting on the ground. I liken it to having a Harrier for CAS...Close air support..it does no good sitting in the "hide"...shut down... If it were was airborne...it could has TURNED the ATMOS PROCESSESOR into slag; as soon as the APC got clear.

Please dont get me wrong..its so easy to Monday Morning Quarterback these things...but this whole is a text book foul up based on

1. Over confident/under experianced OIC (Gorman)
2. Under asset for the task: A squad to RECON that size facility??
3. lack of Air -Ground co-ordination
4. Bad Intell
5. Poor tactical doctrine: Not effectively using NCO's
6. No back up or contingency plan
7. Poor utilization of availble forces...UD-4L
8. A RAT in the Mix..(BURKE)
9. Total lack of situational awreness
10. PPP=PPP Piss Poor Planning = Piss poor patrol

IF they did everything right,,,,we would not have a MOVIE :lol: its always fun to speculate....but a I said...thats hollywood
Author:  hunterkiller86 [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
only thing i'd change is hudson lives.
Author:  paleosteveo [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
hunterkiller86 wrote:
only thing i'd change is hudson lives.


agreed

well i would have not blown a hole in the ceiling with xenos crawling over us in a sealed room (cough cough hicks). like that guy kept his cool the whole movie but that one scene.
Author:  Foxx [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
For my two cents:

If I was the NCOIC (Apone) I would have long ago had a heart to hear with the LT about how our working relationship was going to be. Seeing if I was a combat vet and he was freash out of the box officier I would done my best to break him into a few realities of life outside of the classroom; respectfully, of course. The most important thing would be for him to trust my judgment on the ground while he sits in his armor plated box away from the field of operations.

Meaning I would have conveyed to him not to disarm the squad like was done after discovering there were hostiles in the area (I would imagine the butchered looking colonists after chesbusters were born would have been a STRONG indication of hostilities). One or two flamers when you have a squad of riflemen just dosen't cut it You just cut your capacity for makign dead tangos by a obscene percentage.

Granted, if it was me and I got impregnated with alien I'd face rape the LT with it as it came out; but thats me. :twisted:
Author:  DOC VITO [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
FOXX is 100% on Target. Forgive me if I harp on this...the minute they poped the door and saw the conditions of the facility,(obvious Gun Play and severe damage) the UD-4L (Ferro and Spunkmeyer) should have been advised and at least be on an ALERT 5 status...Airborne in less that 5 minutes: Switches set, crew strapped in.

I almost dont want to go here...The MARINES were going into a KNOWN STRUCTURE...(Atmos PROC)...they would have been aware of HAZMAT (hazordous materials) and Structural Integrity Limitations...as in tailoring your AMMO...No firing...Rifles Slung..No Grenades...Flame Units Only....

MARINES.... we are LEAVING...fall back to the APC and lets re-think this...
Author:  Ttaskmaster [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
Post APC escape?
I'd have TOLD the DS crew that we just met a shedload of hostiles, that they should sweep for Aliens and to make sure they are clear before take-off.

Pre-Drop, I'd have had Bishop fly them down and locked myself in a hypersleep chamber with Ferro... "17 days??!! Man, we're not gonna last 17 hours!!" :lol:
Author:  Winch [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
My own original idea which prompted this thread was this;

I would have deployed the Sentry guns differently! Not all of them just the 2 we see Hudson and Vasquez setup and test!

I would have erected one as far down the service tunnel as it was feasible to get it in the time allowed, but hopefully beyond the tracking range of the second which I would deploy as in the film just outside the pressure door.

Reason? Deployed as they are side by side there will be a massive overkill and hence waste of ammo with both weapons targetting the same xenos! Deployed my way gives greater defence in depth and possibly the first gun might stop them completely for a while if not it will take a "Xeno-Wave" almost as long to overwhelm one gun as two in the confined space of the service tunnel then they hit gun number two!

Doubtless I'll come up with some more as I think about it more!

Tying up Burke seems like a damn good idea too! Even without the benefit of hindsight of him bailing on everyone he's already tried to kill/impregnate Ripley and Newt!
Author:  RustiSwordz [ Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
The second the colonists were found all dead like that i'd order a retreat back to the APC then back to the USS Sulaco if nessesary. Discuss options. I certainly wouldnt disarm my soldiers, fall them back quarantine the prosessor, put sentries around the area and deploy any other technology we had.

A chance to see the PBP in action. :)
Author:  RustiSwordz [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
Burke wanted a rookie officer to increase his chances of getting a Xeno. An experienced officer probably wouldnt have lost as many men and blockaded the planet under ICC quarantine.
Author:  Coredeath [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
Should've brought more firepower man, whats wrong with a few RPG's and frag grenades lol
Author:  DOC VITO [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
EXCELENT POINT Winch... on the U-571C deployment

Tye Burke up?.... LOL...I defo would have shot Burke...no value added in keeping him alive...as soon as he started with the "significant Dollar value BS" and the "important species" line gave him away...two rounds back of head.. RIPLEY would have done it with GLEE......best be sure...ooppps accidental discharge...no offense...


Doc Vito :delta:
Author:  SSgt Burton [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
DOC VITO wrote:
two rounds back of head.. RIPLEY would have done it with GLEE.


Whoa hold on a second there Doc... Ripley was the only one to protest when Hicks decided "We waste him; no offense." :wink:

As for tying him up- certainly there wasn't any time for that. The power just went out and our heroes were readying for another assault by the Xenos. Having Gorman pointing a gun at Burke's head should have been good enough, but in the chaos he managed to slip away.

Would have been nice to see Hicks, Hudson or Vaz knock him out with a rifle butt though. :wink:

As far as I am aware there were four sentry guns in two different positions. I'd have to watch the film again so perhaps I have this wrong. But I believe there are the two that Hudson and Vaz test (outside the pressure door?), and a second pair at what looks like a T junction corridor (perhaps outside the colonists makeshift barricade?).

Really no matter how you slice it our heroes only had a limited amount of ammo- and eventually would have been overrun no matter where you put the senty guns. Having them in different positions would simply have prolonged the envitable.

Personally I can't think of anything that would have truly improved their situation. Even "offing" Burke right away wouldn't have stopped the Xenos from getting to them eventually.

Maybe order Bishop to just run across the damn field to the colony transmitter as fast as his artificial legs would take him, instead of crawling a half a mile per hour through a pipe. :lol:

I mean he did demonstrate that he could move faster than a human with the knife trick right? It's not like he would have tired out or something. :wink:

Kevin
Author:  DOC VITO [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
Quote from Ssgt. Burton "whoa hold on a second there Doc... Ripley was the only one to protest when Hicks decided "We waste him; no offense." :wink:

Ssgt. Burton I respectfully submit: "Being a woman, and by that very nature, reserving the right to change her mind in a split second, (thereby changing many well thought out plans) ...she could very well have been persuaded. " :lol:


Doc
Author:  DR STROMM [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
I never understood why they left the APC. They knew the xenos were crawling all over that place...Seems to me that the APC would have been more of a better choice

APC
has eletricity
heater [warmth]
airconditioning [cool air]
medical kits
ammo
weapons
water [atleast two 5-10 gallon cans ]
air purification system. [NBC]
scopes [night vision]
grenades
extra ammo for those big frigging turret guns [that were never used]
welding tortch [even if it was the hand held]

All in all I base it on modern day equipment and vehicles...I work as a civilian contractor on ft benning , my job is to get vehicles combat ready, and back to were ever needed...Even a m-88 [recovery vehicle] is equiped with two boxes of hand grenades. several boxes of ammo for both chain guns be it the 7.62 or 50.cal two five gallon water cans and fuel cans...not to mention back when I was in the milatary they stocked them with several laws...[light antitank rocket launcher]

In all ..the APC in aliens is way off in our future...I could only imagine what kind of goodies future vehicles would have tucked away in holding bins...and we all know that androids have thousands of down loadable programs...I bet he could have taken a hand welder and fixed that tranny axle...I would have stayed with APC...kicked back combat locked the hatches...and had a buffet with all those c-rations...[MRE's] howmany days til rescue?...17 days is a long time without a restroom....haha

Attachments:
Inside an M-88
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Spent lots of time inside the bowls of critters like this...
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Author:  DOC VITO [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
Roger that Dr.Stromm;

Here is my question,

1. The only damage to the APC was, as I remember
a. minor exterior structure damage from crashing the barricades and the exterior door of the AP
b. blown trans axle
c. drivers windows broken out when the Xeno tried to grabbed Ripley ( and she stomped on the brakes and then ran it over)


2. yet, in the dialog, they refer to "this is all we could salvage out of the wrecked APC"

Q; did the drop ship crash into the APC and total it?

Never been clear on that??
Author:  paleosteveo [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
i was always under the impression that is what happened
Author:  RustiSwordz [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
In the novel, the APC was wasted when the Dropship crashed, everyone dove for cover the ship rolled over the top of them smacked into the APC before what was left rolled into the processor.
Author:  SSgt Burton [ Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: So what would you have done different?
DOC VITO wrote:
Q; did the drop ship crash into the APC and total it?


Yep.

Hudson's line "The transmitter was on the APC; it's wasted!" alludes to this.

I've actually tried to see if I could find the APC during the crash sequence before, but could never quite pick it out. I "think" (and again going off memory that could be way off), the APC miniature is on the set while they are filming the Dropship crash. I'll see if I can watch the extras disc again tonight.


Kevin
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