So I've been thinking about camo lately... largely becasue I put in an order for a lot of gear recently (not USCM related).

The USCM BDU camo is interesting, and I've been wondering about its possible applications and effectiveness. The naturalistic shape of the pattern leans toward use in foliage... but the color makes me wonder if it may not have urban applications. At first glance it looks like a semi-arid camo, but I wonder if the small shapes in the pattern wouldn't allow it to blend into various urban backgrounds when viewed from a distance - such as how currently used ACU does. ...of course ACU is a digital pattern (ideal for urban applications), but when viewed at a distance it can almost disappear into some urban settings. However, USCM camo has a higher contrast range than ACU which again leans towards foliage cover. Which makes me wonder if the USCM camo isn't similar to current multicam: a camo designed for use in various environments.

Now, just to throw a wrench into things the Marines' armor is painted in a style that resembles a future version of the classic woodland camo. ...Something that would not compliment the BDUs in quite a few situations (semi-arid, urban, and possibly even grassland to name a few). Why have two contrasting camo styles? Actually, the coloring of the armor would likely create dark targets from a distance in most environments. Which makes me wonder if the armor was created to match a more standard camo style, and the BDUs we see worn on the Sulaco and LV-426 aren't a standard work BDU or the USCM equivalent to an urban camo... or even a unit specific/purchased camo.

Now, I suppose it must be remembered that the most of the USCM action would be occurring off-world, so we have no idea what type of ecosystems and environments would be encountered across the colonized galaxy. Also not all atmospheres would offer the same lighting as Earth. It's very possible a given planet's atmosphere might block portions of the visible spectrum so that the sky would be more yellow, or purple, than our own. ...And the planet's local star would play a part in that too - a red giant would produce a different spectrum than our own sun. ...All of this would in turn effect the color of native foliage. However, for the sake of not going absolutely insane trying to deal with every possible variable let's assume that we are talking about environments that offer lighting and spectrums similar to Earth or LV-426 (which was more gray and offered less light during the day... something equal to stormy twilight) - being this is what we've seen and can all discuss with ease of reference.

Thoughts?

I'd also be curious to see the USCM camo in various environments (I don't have a set so I can't volunteer for this), but I'm curious as to how it would hold up in various environments: urban, arid, semi-arid, wooded, and so on. Has anyone tried to see how well it would conceal?

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Very cool, well-thought out ideas. I was going by a wooded area yesterday and thinking: "I wonder how the USCM camo would look in there?" We'll have some shots up soon of the photoshoot we did at DCon 2010, where the Marines are in a urban enviroment.

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USCM- The Colonial Marines- A Brotherhood of Bad Asses!

I believe the answer to the contrasting camo is that Terry painted the armour woodland colours instead of like the BDU's and then Cameron said it looked better anyway.
At least that's my recollection of what Terry said.

Cheers

Darren

This line of reasoning reminds me of the movie Jarhead- depicting events in Desert Storm---

(As I understand it) Desert Storm saw the first use of 6 colour desert pattern camo, however when the threat of the enemy using biological/chemical weapons arose, the US Marines wore their NBC suits- which were still woodland camo.

This resulted in an odd blend of camo with their undersuit being woodland, and their armour/backpacks/helmets being desert camo.

So is it possible that the USCM armour camo was standard as you said, and the BDU pattern new?

Kevin

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I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

Lol funny how history repeats itself:

http://www.defense.gov/dodcmsshare/newsphoto/2003-03/030321-M-3692W-053.jpg

Marines from 2/1 in the Invasion of 2003....

Back when 3 color desert was the standard, MARPAT was just coming out and seen here and there.

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"The worth and value of a man is in his heart and his will; there lies his real honor. Valor is the strength, not of legs and arms, but of heart and soul..." -Michel de Montaigne

Looking forward to the photos. And snap a few of yourself in the woods at various distances to see how well it works. Different times of day would be cool too: early morning, mid-day, evening, twilight...




Good analogy, Kevin. That's a good point for the camo being a new design compared to the armor.

I was also wondering how well the USCM camo would work when viewed in IR and UV. Some current camo patterns work well in IR, others seem to stand out like a sore thumb. This may be something that was addressed in the camo pattern being that the Sentry Gun had an option for IR targeting, as well as UV. If the camo absorbs IR and UV radiation it would make less of a target to enemy sentries. ...just a thought. ...However the use of UV on the sentry guns was more likely geared towards targeting enemy troops who are using wireless coms (...but that's a conversation for another time. )

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While this thread can make for some very interesting discussions it must be realised that it will be complete conjecture and speculation! As far as I'm aware the camouflage of both the BDU's and the armour are simply there because "soldiers wear camouflage" there is no specific scripted reasoning beyond that.

The USCM pattern itself is basically a re-coloured variation of the US Vietnam era ERDL camouflage pattern if I recall correctly. Whether the colours were chosen for any real camouflage purposes or simply to look different to any currently in service camouflage is open to debate.

As for its effectiveness in the real world there really is only one way to find out. In your second post you mention effectivess in the Infra Red and Ultra Violet spectrums I suspect that since both the Screen Used and reproduction USCM BDU's have been produced to look "cool" they are unlikely to have been printed using the specialist (and thus expensive) IR reflective/absorbtive inks necessary to offer any genuine protection in these areas.

As for the contrasting camo patterns on the BDU's and armour probably the simplest and most realistic explanation would be the same as for the case highlighted by Kevin in Desert Storm and equally in Iraqi Freedom and not just among US troops British troops were also to be seen dressed in mixed camo patterns. This reason is quite simply economics, any force buys equipment best suited to it's most likely area of operations. BDU's being probably the cheapest component of a warriors kit can be stockpiled in varying camouflage schemes against possible need. But more expensive items like Armour, NBC Kit and Webbing are generally only available in the most likely needed pattern.

Of course if you want to stray outside the strict confines of the Aliens film then the Extended Universe is your oyster! The Tech Manual for example specifies;

The Tech Manual also depicts a very geometric and high contrast camouflage pattern in conjunction with one of the hostile environment suits but there is no reference to different patterned armours!

Then of course if we're straying into extended universe we can speculate on the thermal camouflage properties of the armour shielding the largest part of the human IR signature namely the Head and Torso. Or the use of James Bond style "adaptive camouflage" the basics of which I had figured out long before Die Another Day hit the screens and is not as fictional as some of 007's other gadgetry.

Well better close now hope I've given some more food for thought!

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Cheers

Winch

"Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow I shall fear no evil for thou art with me. And together we'll kick ANY bugs ASS!"
You know who you are!

Agree with you all. When I analyzed the subject a few years back I came to the following conclusions (as you guys already have noted) :

- One cammo is tropical/forest and the other one is dry climate colours.

It's believed that operations have been pulled in Tropical climates (Vietnam theme) for an extended periods before the LV426 mission. Fatigues in wet climates is generally worn out fast due to the damp conditions. When on stand down prior to the LV-426 mission they where issued new fatigues w. new or "other" cammo. But as we can see by the state of the equipment; both Weapons and Armour shows moderate to heavy wear and even damage (Camerons idea) it is assumed that either time or resources where short to replace or fix them before LV426. (Some of the PRs looks so banged up that I have doubt they survive a weapons inspection by the armory staff.)

So they go out on what some assume is a emergency mission and use their old gear that was directly at hand.
If having time on a longer stand down between missions for rest and resupply morale and quality of equipment could be assumed to be higher.

/ Jonsey

Just a thought back to Aliens: How about a Gigeresque Camo. For use on Space Jockey/ Xeno infested worlds. Just a thought.

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http://www.richarddaborn.com
Now a member of the Freebooters, another Pirate about! Aaar!
A12/TQ0.0.72138F1 ECG Daborn, R RustiSwordz South East England-UK
'In Space, there is no Horse'

I just know that when I played airsoft in the woods in full USCM gear, I was told the camo worked very well.

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Jay Pennington

As a DESERT Shield/ STORM Veteran (Corpsman, 1st MAR. Div); I can comment on the mixed media Cammo, the supply system simply did not have enough to completely kit out everyone .

As I have read, and I'm sure most of you are way ahead of me on this...the USCM pattern has been called "frog and leaf" it is a permutation (different color combo) of the pre Woodland Patern called ERDL (Engineering Reasearch and Development Lab) .

Hands down, one of the oldest and most effective pattern (pre MARPAT and ARMY ACU DIGI) is the WWII Waffen SS 44DOT (1944 DOT pattern) cammo. Most especially in early fall/filtered sunlight woodland enviorment. People really just dis-appear with this one.

The basics THAT INFLUENCE THE USE of any cammo pattern is:

1. ENVIORMRENT
2. AMBIENT LIGHT
3 PATTERN DISRUPTION
4. REFLECTION
5. THERMAL MASKING
6. PROPER UTILIZATION
7. CONTRAST
8. UV MASKING
9. ADAPATABILITY
10. AVAILABILITY


My 2cents....

Semper-Fi "Doc" Vito

(Thanks Gi-rene..I amended my bad on the acronym ERTL; should be ERDL Engineering Reasearch and Development Lab as YOU correctly noted )

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"Doc" Vito
Sgt.V. D'Aiuto
A07/TQ0.042140E1

"I say we grease this RAT-F*CK Son of B*TCH RIGHT NOW!"

Agreed Doc.

I'm not a fan of 44 Dot though it looks cool, kinda like the Ambush Scheme for armored vehicles (which I do like ). But I have to say they had some kickass other patterns. Anyways to illustrate:

44 Dot


ERDL (which I need to get my hands on for my Vietnam Force Recon Marine/Operation Dewey Canyon Marine)


And I was kinda against the MARPAT being effective until I saw these photos from The Okinawa Jungle Warfare course:


And Over There:


I realized that when you get it covered in muck or sandblasted it turns into a pretty useful pattern.

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"The worth and value of a man is in his heart and his will; there lies his real honor. Valor is the strength, not of legs and arms, but of heart and soul..." -Michel de Montaigne

See my post amendment: KUDOS to gi-rene , got my acronyms (ERDL vs. ERTL screwed up).

Gi-rene PM me if you are intersted in finding ERDL cammo...I may be able to point you in the right direction. I know a couple dudes who are Vietnam re-enactors...getting big in the NE and Mid-Atlantic regions. Last June, on Armed Forces Day , we did an American GI Timeline....Minutemen to Present day at The Old Bethpage Restoration Village on Long Island NY. ...I'll send you some pics if interested.

Semper-Gumbi...always flexible ...."Doc" Vito

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"Doc" Vito
Sgt.V. D'Aiuto
A07/TQ0.042140E1

"I say we grease this RAT-F*CK Son of B*TCH RIGHT NOW!"

ROFL at "Semper-Gumbi"

One of my fav camos is Russian "partizan", which is similar to some of the WWII German camos.

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Pvt J. DeGraff, C.M.D.
A14/TQ3.0.65090E2

Not that I disagree in general, but what does that particular picture prove? It's completely covered in mud. A prom dress would blend in under those conditions.

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Jay Pennington

i think thats the point...a joke...

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NO BRAIN NO PAIN

Yeah I think it was meant as a tongue in cheek joke like FIDO mentioned-

The pattern is very effective once your covered from head to toe in mud, or the BDUs have been sun bleached.


Kevin

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I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

Ah, I earn my "Captain Literal" wings once again.

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Jay Pennington

well then....
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2206

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NO BRAIN NO PAIN