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 Post subject: Re: Colony Map
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:16 pm 
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Hi folks, new to the forum (long time lurker on most Aliens forums) so not sure if has been posted, but some eye-candy relating to the Colony Map for you. I am working on a 2D map myself among other things, so forgive me if I talk a lot as I've done a lot of research and too many hours freeze framing the Blu Rays :)


Anyway, an amazing guy called Braz is putting together the colony in 28mm miniature size. Remember to check all the pages as hes done a fair bit of work.
Scroll down a few posts on this page for some images - http://www.lead-adventure.de/index.php?topic=20983.60

Im still unsure about the lift being in the short corridor opposite Operations/the stairway up to the crawlspace above Ops, as in this facebook image from Matt on the Prodos AVP page. Its not deadly accurate, but again shows the lift in that corner:
https://scontent.flhr4-2.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=59167146

Obviously looking at the schematics from the movie, realtime and in more detail on the box set Blu Ray extra goodies disc, it would be hard to place a lift there looking at the plans, but it would make sense to have a lift at that area/end perhaps larger than the small lift at the other end which barely fits Hicks and Ripley (and an Alien lol) in it.

Regarding the "lift" that Gorman, Ripley, etc took when Hicks Frost met the APC at the South Lock. Well, we don't actually know it is a lift, it could be a stairwell, a room leading to stairs or somewhere else. Even though Hicks and Ripley took a (possibly similar) lift from the Sub Level to Level 1 (after the Alien acid burned Hicks) that was at the North Lock, so although the filmmakers used the same building/props for both Locks (just swapping the signage around) we can assume that just because it's a lift at the North End doesn't necessarily mean its a lift at the south end. So these two images above could be right, assuming the floorplan is a bit suspect : )

To lend credibility to this, remember in the film when Vaz and Hudson walk the perimeter and Vaz says "Hudson may be right", look behind her, there is a door that has been sealed up. This could in fact be a lift and not just a room doorway or door-connection point, or whatever. But in fact a lift. As Drake did say "they sealed off the area at both ends". That indeed is one end, and it is sealed off; the other being the barricade???

So many discrepancies and grey areas, and so much guess work involved... but its nice to discuss :)


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 Post subject: Re: Colony Map
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:38 pm 
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I know Moosh has looked at the area in great detail earlier in the thread, and I too will have my own take on it which you'll see next year in a blueprints book, but to me it makes sense that, if the modules to the colony are part of a pre-fabricated range to drop in-place and connect, there would be an elevator somewhere in the South Module / Wing.

I don't know if I would place it where Matt has shown it. I think I would first look at it being a mirror-image of what is happening at the North Lock entrance. The set version of that loosely followed a concept by Ron Cobb of a typical colony airlock, and there would perhaps be the same thing going on at the other end of the colony.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:46 pm 
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Agreed, but from what we see its not mirrored otherwise the lift would go up into Operations. Whatever we draw up, its going to be a guess in places, as we simply can see enough shots or what we do see clashes in certain areas.

Have you got any preliminary re-worked sketches of your ideas yet, Space Jockey?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:14 pm 
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That 28mm model is amazing! It really is fun to see over the walls for how the layout lines up.

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 Post subject: Re: Colony Map
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:40 am 
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You misunderstood me. When I say mirrored, I mean exactly that; imagine you enter the exterior North Lock door. You are in the airlock, elevator to your left, inner airlock door ahead and beyond that, the main colony corridor . Now imagine you enter South Lock. It's mirrored, so elevator is on your right. Operations would be to your left on the second level.

Love the models made, used to paint up lead miniatures myself a long while back. To answer your question, i do have sketches. But all art i do for the book now is for the publisher and not mine to show. You'll see it all soon enough, though, i hope you'll like it. :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:49 am 
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Hope so. I love seeing peoples interpretations of the layout. I thought it was just me spending hours working it all out and drawing plans, then I come across folks like your good self, the wonderful Moosh, etc. I just wish we had something official to clear up the very many grey areas :)

SJ, going back to what you are saying about the North Lock elevator being on the left of the main door (as we see - Hicks/Ripley at end), so you suggest the South Lock elevator is on right in the a similar door-wayed room, as being mirrored in both planes...

If that is the case, and its mirrored as you say, it would pop up (the floor above) right outside the Operations door, just on the other side of the corridor?

It would also put the stair-well that we see on the right of the North Lock (THROUGH the door) the one that Vaz/Apone lead the Marines into. So mirroring in that plane wouldnt work eaither - it would put it on the left, again, up to Operations - up a floor and right outside the Ops door. But the only stairwell you see outside Operations are the small stairs that only go upwards to the crawlspace area above Ops, as you can clearly see during the Lydecker/Simpson walk or when Newt is going to her nest that they dont go down (I think Moosh agrees with me that they only go up to the crawlspace, not down)? So I'm not sure your mirroring works from going by what we see (or cant see) outside Operations. I think its more like what Moosh has overlayed on to the blueprints - no lift, no stairs other than the ones from outside Ops to the above Crawlspace, as I mentioned above, and there is no mirroring of a lift room adjacent to the main corridor at the North Lock, just like the North Lock.

All very confusing :)


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 Post subject: Re: Colony Map
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:24 pm 
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My background is architectural so I kind of think in that way. For emergency exiting and general egress, I would absolutely put a stairwell at each end of each colony module. And I'd certainly put an elevator in each block, too.

If there is one thing I love about these blueprints it's being told it isn't going to work. :-)

Best,
SJ


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:45 pm 
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Agreed, similar here, I'm a CAD draughtsman and work a lot with Civil drawings like this all the time. I would at least put one lift in either end and at least 2 if not 4 stairwells. I may re-design that if I knew dozens of acid bleeding aliens were attacking it, and more terrifying than that, 3 decades on, a load of uber fans were going to brainstorm over movie images/plans! :)

The designers clearly didnt expect us, when the decided to display those blueprints in the movie, and when they didnt design it all exactly spot on to scale and in perfect order (how dare they!) and they really threw a spanner in the works when they decided to film the same area for the North AND the South locks! So we are just going to have to get used to it, and accept several different peoples interpretations! I have already done 2 alternative layouts today with the lift in 2 different places! My head hurts :) At least we have most of it spot on...


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 Post subject: Re: Colony Map
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:18 pm 
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Okay, this is all you're going to get from me....loosely done, from memory, while at work and I don't have the movie to refer to.
But it'll look something like this. :-)

My post above regarding 'mirrored' - was talking about the elevator, not the stair.

Haven't worked on a layout for the Station Maintenance Center yet (this is marked as text on the hanging Colony Map in Operations).
I don't know the outline of this area yet as haven't gotten that far, need to look at the roof more.
I had an idea while doing this on the stair 'each end of the module' idea given the length of the corridors.

Best,
SJ

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:38 pm 
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Cheers for images.

If you watch this video:
https://youtu.be/zCgiFA7wkYM

You will see the lift that Ripley and Acid burned Hicks come out of at the North Lock. Note the two metallic bars around the walls at shoulder height when they are taking Hicks' armour off - which you can see when they are out of the lift and going down the ramp, so its definitely the same lift (some people the shot of them appearing from the smoke by the open North Lock door/ram is not a lift and it could be a filming timing issue).

From the South Lock (with them using the same building to film both Locks) it obviously appears to be same lift that Gorman and the crew go into, to go up one level to Operations. Perhaps continuity errors with the upper level being barricaded, but perhaps they could say its not a lift but a doorway to another room or access to the corridors - after all they did then move North, to then come back down South past the barricades to Medical ("Last Stand").

Where you have drawn the lift on the 2nd level on your middle image. That's actually a corridor opposite the Operations door (slightly offset south about a yard or two), which goes to the end of the wall on the left, as in the blueprint images which several people have overlayed graphics onto. such as this one from Moosh:
and check out the blueprints, which several people have overlayed graphics onto, such as this one from Moosh:
download/file.php?id=17235&mode=view
From the movie:
- Vaz walks down it at the end of the movie when she says "Hudson may be right". Hudson goes towards the Barricade, Vaz goes down the other way.
- Newt runs up it from left to right (straight line on the motion tracker) towards the Ops door wall area, when she darts past the maintenance crawlspace stairs and under the grill into her nest).
- The Simpson/Lydecker walk in the Special Edition, you see people walking up and down it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iusPorC4wZE (1 minute 20 in)

I find, the more you research into it the more confusing it gets :D


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 Post subject: Re: Colony Map
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:41 pm 
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I feel like I'm playing ping-pong.

Willywoo wrote:
If you watch this video:
https://youtu.be/zCgiFA7wkYM

You will see the lift that Ripley and Acid burned Hicks come out of at the North Lock. Note the two metallic bars around the walls at shoulder height when they are taking Hicks' armour off - which you can see when they are out of the lift and going down the ramp, so its definitely the same lift (some people query its not a lift).


Not in doubt - same elevator. Basement by no means has to follow the same layout as levels above (where the main corridor stretch is closer to the elevator).

Willywoo wrote:
From the South Lock, (with them using the same building to film both Locks) it obviously appears to be same lift that Gorman and the crew go into, to go up one level to Operations.


I do disagree here...I see nothing in the movie to support that they go up an elevator or see an elevator in that scene.
Seems like they emerge North of MedLab, crouching under debris piled up in the main corridor.
Entirely possible that on entering the South Lock, they find the stair inaccessible and blocked off, elevator damaged. They then have to go further into the colony on Level 1, up another stairwell, and backtrack down the main corridor on Level 2 to get to the barricaded area just North of MedLab where they meet with Drake. One of many possibilities.

Willywoo wrote:
Where you have the lift on the 2nd level. That's actually a corridor opposite the Operations door (slightly offset south about a yard or two), which goes to the end of the wall on the left, as in the blueprint images which several people have overlayed graphics onto. such as this one from Moosh:


I cannot access it, it says that the file has been removed...

Willywoo wrote:
and check out the blueprints, which several people have overlayed graphics onto, such as this one from Moosh:
download/file.php?id=17235&mode=view
From the movie:
- Vaz walks down it at the end of the movie when she says "Hudson may be right". Hudson goes towards the Barricade, Vaz goes down the other way.
- Newt runs up it from left to right (straight line on the motion tracker) towards the Ops door wall area, when she darts past the maintenance crawlspace stairs and under the grill into her nest).
- The Simpson/Lydecker walk in the Special Edition, you see people walking up and down it.

In the clip I see people walking up and down the main corridor stretch as Simpson and Lydecker exit Operations and head North. But I don't see the extra corridor heading East you are talking about and Moosh has drawn directly opposite the OPS door. I see a hint of something (I see the '2' on the wall to the left of Lydecker) but to me that could just as easily be a an alcove for a stairwell connecting Levels 1 and 2. See sketch above. I have seen a shot of a corridor 'crossroads junction' with a small door identical to an elevator door at the end of it. But there is nothing on the photo to specifically state it's an elevator. Moosh has drawn a 'crossroads' further to the North....could well be that area.

Not trying to sound arrogant, I get that the Construction Set Blueprints show it a particular way (I've yet to see any of this corridor, have only ever seen a ceiling plan for OPS), but though I do use those as a starting point wherever possible, I do work on the basis that whatever one sees in the movie in-shot takes precedent. There are however examples where this just does not work (location of the corridor and ladderwell to the rear of the Narcissus in Alien for example relative to the Nostromo exterior - I'm having to really think outside the box on that one). Trick is to find a happy medium, and try my darnedest to not go against what we actually see in the movie.

Best,
SJ

EDIT: Just noticed you'd edited your post while I was responding to the earlier version. Sorry! I hope you'll see where I'm coming from, though. :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:44 pm 
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Yes I see what you mean and sorry about the ping pong, but I really dont think theres a main stairwell and a lift opposite the Operations door (near the little stairs) as you have drawn above, and I also disagree that there isnt a small corridor by the Ops door (that Vaz walks down at the end, whilst Hudson walks down the main corridor). I personally think its as most people have it, like in the overlay plan that Moosh did above. I was just after peoples thoughts as Im drawing up rules/layouts for an aliens movie game and the Last Stand and Game Time scenarios will be part of the campaign. But I understand you have your opinions and we have ours, I fully respect that, so without further "ping ponging" as you say I wont discuss it here any further on the forum. Sorry. Thanks for your info.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:34 am 
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Willywoo, do you have an approx. time stamp on the S.E. for when Vasquez goes down the hall? I'm not remembering that.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:19 am 
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In private discussion with Willywoo, he had shown me some inaccurate maps he found online. I mentioned the inaccuracies and showed some of the maps I did a few months back. I had told him about the corridor opposite of Operations and about the stairway that only goes up outside Ops.

retrogarde wrote:
Willywoo, do you have an approx. time stamp on the S.E. for when Vasquez goes down the hall? I'm not remembering that.


In the Special Edition, at 1:53:15 we see Hudson go North toward the barricade, Vasquez moves south toward the stairway.


Cut to 1:53:37, we see the stairway behind Vasquez as she moves East into the smaller corridor.

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She continues East to the end of the corridor, when she comes to a sealed and barricaded door
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:51 am 
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That's excellent! I was so turned around in that scene that I didn't realize they were right there.

One thing though, there is a break in the guard rail somewhere along the East wall (opposite Ops and the Medlab) indicating a doorway. We see it to the left of Lydecker when he and Al walk down the hall after leaving Ops. I don't know how fa down it is, but not too far.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:00 am 
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There are a few doorways, I haven't gotten to add them into this map just yet. One is the Supply room where Burke and Newt scavenge rations

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 Post subject: Re: Colony Map
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:19 am 
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Yeah I can see me having to pause this movie often, LOL! Nice job Moosh!

I wonder what could be behind that large door? I saw in the Simpson Lydecker scene, there are carts driven around on that level. Probably why the door is bigger...


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:42 am 
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Thanks Moosh. Ive known about that corridor, like most people, for many many years, when we could properly pause the blueprint plans. Im almost 50 and have been watching, pausing, drawing and wargaming it for decades. Dont know what it is with this movie, but I am truly addicted.

We can clearly see from the Simpson walk what is around that area. Everyone has beenn able to clearly see from that walk and other material if you do enough pausing, what is and what is not outside the operations door. Its fun to map, and over several decades Ive always enjoyed finding some accurate plans and some inaccurate plans and finding out more about the movie.

The only consistency Ive found, is the inconstincy of peoples ideas of the layout. Not just by the fans, but by the filmmakers too, which makes it all the harder. :)

Cheers


Last edited by Willywoo on Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:47 am 
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I had also suggested that in order for the film to make sense visually when we see Gorman and Ripley enter South Lock where the North Lock elevator is, we don't see the interior of the elevator, and as I also suggested, having an elevator here clashes with Operations and Newts nest. This means, we can only assume that because the interior Bulkhead may be sealed, they've taken an alternative route around the bulkhead and travelled North on Level 1 down to the nearest stairway, came up to Level 2 and moved South, passing under the Northern barricade to get to Operations/Medlab, as we see in the very next shot.

As for what is behind the door Vasquez stands by, not sure.

A question I have is how do the carts we see driving get up to level 2? We can possibly assume that there is in fact a cargo elevator large enough for the carts that goes from the basement, through Level 1, Level 2 and Level 3s Station Maintenance area. It could have been damaged after the infestation, and thus sealed off making it inoperable for Gorman and Ripley.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:08 am 
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retrogarde wrote:
Willywoo, do you have an approx. time stamp on the S.E. for when Vasquez goes down the hall? I'm not remembering that.


Sorry mate, was out last night - as I said yesterday, a few posts earlier, it's at the end of the movie "Game Time" when Hicks sends Vaz and Hudson to walk the perimeter; Hudson moves towards the barricade and Vaz moves East towards another door (that we see is sealed) and says "Hudson may be right". Moosh is correct, thanks for agreeing and adding images to match my earlier description :) they make it a lot clearer than words alone.

Pausing the blu ray and looking carefully around, ever since the special edition came out shows you LOTS. Even if you are as crazy as me and like to inspect every spec of dust, and have seen the movie several hundred times, there's ALWAYS something else to spot. I'd like to know what is beyond that door at the end of the corridor also, it could be another room, it could be the outer wall (as a connection to other modular buildings/access corridors). I have my theories, but that's for another time. As I explained yesterday, and as in Mooshe's correct picture earlier, showing the paths Vaz and Hudson take - Vaz moves EAST down the corridor (that a lot of people understandably miss, granted), and Hudson moves NORTH towards the barricade. This is not only interesting for mapping the colony, but it could give us a slight indication of the main direction or at least timing of the latter alien waves, as Hudon's tracker beeps first, then there is a significant time delay and movement (considering how slow the aliens are crawling, gauged from when they are moving slowly "right outside the door" towards the team in Ops a minute or two later), til we hear Vaz's starting to beep also. As we learn, they are pretty much surrounded quickly, but its another thing to learn about the final attacks. The Simpson Lydecker walk at the beginning, shows the detail right outside the door near the small stairway up, which we've known for a long time goes up to the crawlspace/top maintenance are above Ops.

I honestly don't think there's a lift and a main stairway right outside and opposite the Ops door/next to the upward crawlspace stairs, just room doorways, like when you see Burke and Newt bringing supplies through to Operations from. I'm sorry if that clashes with other people's theories but that is just my (and clearly other peoples) opinions. The moviemakers havent helped us with all the grey areas have they :) I have explained why, but to add another reason for this, and something that people also miss; there is also a Maintenance area "below" Ops. Again, the Simpson/Lydecker walk in the Special Edition - when Simpson says to Lydecker "I will be DOWN in Maintenance", but then walks out, left, and north a fair bit down the corridors (towards where the barricade would end up being) before they shout at the hells angels kids. If there was a lift right outside the Operations door, then he would have surely taken that to go down, not walk down the corridor... it's little snippits like this that we can all work together with, piecing out, and slowly building up a better picture, together as fans. I apologise for waffling on too much, I was just as bad at 16 or so when the movie first came out, but to continue...

You can never 100% rule it out without seeing the full layouts, and one day we may be surprised, but if it was a lift that Gorman and the team go into when they meet Ripley/APC at the South Lock (and not just looking like a lift - because thats what they actually used (the North Lock lift) when filming the South Lock), you would think that hey wouldn't have approached medical from the direction they did, further North and walking towards Medical. As a lift there as Moosh correctly says, would have been very near or in the Operations area, near the two bosses offices. The route Gorman, etc. then took from it is unknown so we can only speculate on it, but they would have weaved their way north, probably through locked, sealed, barricaded areas and back down near the barricade from the opposite direction... I think I have worn my pause button out trying to work it all out of the past 3 decades trying to shed light on it, but the amount of lazy film shooting and anomalies makes it very difficult and we are perhaps crazy to try and fit it together :)

Saying that, I love to hear and see other people's ideas of the colony layout, some right, some wrong, some speculative. but always, always interesting. Thanks to all that contribute.

Also, if anyone hasn't read it already (and why not?!!!) the old Alan Dean Foster novel gives some other interesting insight.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:29 pm 
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Just behind Lydecker you can see the gap in the rail and the extension of the floor grate. This is just outside Ops (but not directly across from it). I don't think this is the door Burke and Newt come out of carrying supplies from either.

As for the door Vasquez is standing by, I think it has to be a lift or staircase because it has been so completely sealed off. The colonists spent a long time securing it, so I doubt it is just a closet.

At my work there are three different paths from my work bench to my supervisor's office. Depending on the day I'll take a direct route or an indirect route. I don't think Simpson's chosen path means there isn't a more direct route. After all, what's the hurry? This place is tiny!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:34 pm 
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retrogarde wrote:
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Just behind Lydecker you can see the gap in the rail and the extension of the floor grate. This is just outside Ops (but not directly across from it). I don't think this is the door Burke and Newt come out of carrying supplies from either.



Further down

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Country: United States
Slightly off topic, but are these side rooms (redressed) where they shot the colony sweep? I mean like the soggy donut and the gerbils.

This might be useful for mapping out these side rooms a little though.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:51 pm 
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Location: Rapid View, Saskatchewan
Service Number: A10/TQ1.0.32157E1
Country: Canada
Almost certainly. They had about 400 feet in length to work with for the corridors.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:20 am 
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Location: Bay Area, California
Country: United States
Shouldn't Aliens: Colonial Marines be an official layout of the colony? Couldn't we just copy those levels? Lol (I knowwwww what the majority thinks of this...just sayin')

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