The Aliens Legacy
http://forum.alienslegacy.com/

Working Sentry Gun Program - there is hope!
http://forum.alienslegacy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5586		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Bug Stomper [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Working Sentry Gun Program - there is hope!
If everything goes well, I'll have a copy of GRiDBasic in about 10 days!
You can't imagine how excited I am right now. Keep your fingers crossed!
With that running it should be no big deal to do the Sentry Gun program for the Compass models. :D

Cheers,
Stefan
Author:  Russ Krook III [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:32 am ]
Post subject: 
Ah, but can you upload it for the rest of us with newer systems? :)

Is it (GridDos) on an eprom?

Russ
Author:  judgedoug [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:20 am ]
Post subject: 
I've been programming in BASIC since TI-BASIC in 1984, through compilable Quickbasic in 1994, now I write apps for a company in object oriented RealBasic and VisualBasic. Need any help?
Author:  Bug Stomper [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:21 am ]
Post subject: 
Doug,
thanks for the offer. I'll get back to you should there be any problems doing it. However, I think the biggest challange will be setting up the GRIDBasic itself to run properly. When that's done the rest should be a piece of cake.

Russ,
I'll upload the programs (the sentry gun program as well as the GRiDBasic) for everyone else to use. However, I think it won't do any good without the GRiD-OS. So if you are running DOS, you have to find another way to go.

Cheers,
Stefan
Author:  SgtTony [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
All you need now is a 1:1 scale Sentry Gun ;)
Author:  Noble [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Stefan,

That is cool!

We still need someone to write a Terminal Program in DOS.

I'm guessing 97% of us own gridcases.

It's that damn huge external 5.25in 384k floppy drive that scared me away from the compass.
Author:  Bug Stomper [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
You only need the 5-1/4" drive once. As soon as you have copied the program into the bubble memory it's all done.
It's interesting to see that they are taking the same route again in modern laptop computers. Called SSD (solid state drive) now, but the basic principle to use non-volatile ram instead of disk drives is the same.

Tony, I'll have to finish the sentry gun battery first :D
Also, I still don't know what kind of camera they used for the targeting system. Anyone?

Cheers,
Stefan
Author:  Russ Krook III [ Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
I believe it was stated once that the cameras were Sony's of some sort.

Sorry I can't be more specific (or certain) than that.

@Judge Doug: Ideally, we'd like the MSDOS version to run in 640k
of memory, with minimal graphics.

Should run on an 8088-80386 processor off of a floppy drive. Preferrably under 720k in size as the older Grid's only have the 720k 3.5" floppy, or the even smaller capacity 5.25" floppy.

Ideally, I'd like to see the following features:

1) A startup screen that allows you to select which gun you would like to assign the terminal to... Letter designations A-F? This letter designation would then be reflected in all screens that follow...

Image

2) It should have a setup screen like in the film, with selectable options (even if they don't actually have a true function/purpose).

3) After your selections have been made, you go to the shot counter/RPM/Temp screen. The simulation then automatically starts counting down the number of rounds while the RPM and temp bars go up.

Image

Additional images of another (but sadly Amiga based program) can be found here:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/paul.a.kitching/sentry.htm

At 10% of remaining rounds a "critical" flasher... er... flashes on screen. When rounds equal zero ( 000 ) the temp gauge slowly falls until it reaches zero. Then after a bit longer the simulation automatically resets back to full ammo loadout and the "firing" begins again. You might add the option of <c>ontinue or <e>nd at that point, or perhaps have a set number of times the simulation will recycle before ending.

That's the "wish list" of course. The reality of what can be accomplished in the hardware/software restrictions might be very different than this.

For a good example of what can be un on a modern system, check out Mike Rush's great flash based version.

Sadly, you can't run it on the old Grid systems. :)

Russ
Author:  judgedoug [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:39 am ]
Post subject: 
An MSDOS version could be pretty easily done in QuickBASIC 4.5, the executable would be less than 100k in size. It could easily be installed on an MSDOS boot disk and automatically run when the laptop is powered on with the disk in the floppy drive.

But what screen resolution? And amber/monochrome only? As in, would the graphics be drawn in greyscale, but the laptop's amber monochrome monitor would display it (as amber, obviously), or should I draw the graphics in in an amber color (VGA, 256 color) for a color display?

I guess the problem is, standards would be needed before writing anything.
Author:  Noble [ Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:05 am ]
Post subject: 
Talk to Russ about the standards.

He's been heading up this crusade to get a better terminal program.


It would be grayscale. The color comes from the screen type.
Author:  Russ Krook III [ Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Greyscale would be good as it would display "in color" of the native monitor.

The Gridcase (1) has a "reported" resolution of 640w x 240h.

Can anyone confirm that?

I don't have specs for the Gridcase 2, 3 or tempest.

Does anyone have manuals for these systems? That would be the place to check for systm specs.

The Grid 1520 and 1530 have a 640x480 CGA monitor. Later units have a 640x480 VGA resolution monitor.
Author:  Bug Stomper [ Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm not sure if any of the the displays/graphic chips can handle greyscales. I'm pretty sure the Compass models can handle only black and white (yellow) and the same goes for my Gridcase3 with the orange display.

Cheers,
Stefan
Author:  Russ Krook III [ Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ah, good point about the "greyscale" or lack thereof. I have
some older "freeware" games I've run on my 1520 (Elite,
Autoduel) and I think at least Autoduel displays in greyscale on my
system.

However, for the purposes of a Sentry Gun terminal simulator,
Black & White (yellow/amber/orange - monitor variable of course)
would be best.

Stefan, do you have manuals for your Compass? I'm curious if they state what the monitor resolution is?

Also, do you have a larger size picture that we could use for the Grid computer/terminal comparison guide?

Thanks!

Russ
Author:  Bug Stomper [ Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
I just checked the display resolution of the 1131/1139. It's 512x240 pixel. Also all the necessary fonts and screens are drawn (by counting pixels in screenshots :roll: ). This is one of the screens I did:

Image

There's a catch however - except for the above image, all other files are at my parent's home and I won't be there before the easter holidays. :(
I'll try to get them here sooner, but I can't promise anything.

Cheers,
Stefan

PS: A larger picture of the Compass case or of the sentry gun screen?
Author:  Russ Krook III [ Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the info Stefan!

If possible I'd like a good shot of the Compass itself. Perhaps a front view with the unit powered up?

The shot of the Tempest we have in the listing I actually made from 2 pictures supplied by Kevin Burton. The flash lit up the casing nice, but washed out the screen. I then took another good picture he had of the screen and cut/pasted it in. :)

Thanks!

Russ
Author:  Bug Stomper [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Russ,
I had to edit the data in the post above. The correct screen size is 512x256.

Here are two pictures of my 1131:
Image

Image

Cheers,
Stefan
Author:  judgedoug [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Okay, well let's break this down a bit...

Which Grid models use what OS and what screen resolutions/color depths are they?

And if I'm understanding this correctly, some models did not use MS-DOS?
Author:  Bug Stomper [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:19 am ]
Post subject: 
The Compass models could operate with DOS (I think mine has 3.2) as well as GRiD-OS. The later models e.g. the Gridcases and the 15XX were DOS only (at least that's what I know).
The Compass models had either 320x240 (the small model that doesn't work for a sentry gun terminal) or 512x256 (that's the correct size!).
I'm not sure about the later models, but I can check my Gridcase3 tomorrow.

Cheers,
Stefan
Author:  judgedoug [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:44 am ]
Post subject: 
Bug Stomper wrote:
The Compass models could operate with DOS (I think mine has 3.2) as well as GRiD-OS. The later models e.g. the Gridcases and the 15XX were DOS only (at least that's what I know).
The Compass models had either 320x240 (the small model that doesn't work for a sentry gun terminal) or 512x240 (that's the correct size!).
I'm not sure about the later models, but I can check my Gridcase3 tomorrow.

Cheers,
Stefan


Okay, so the tech specs would be:

compatible with DOS 3.2
512x240
monochrome
less than 100k used in RAM

I will need specs on dimensions of fonts and line art, etc.
There appears to be 3 font sizes used
- small (the main menu font)
- medium (main menu title font and gun monitor screen generic font)
- large (sentry gun letter and rounds/secs font)

Actually, since the fonts appear to be mono-spaced, a binary map of each character would work as well.

Example: Assuming a 20x20 graphic, a K would look like

00000000000000000000
00111000000000111000
00111000000001110000
00111000000011100000
00111000000111000000
00111000001110000000
00111000011100000000
00111000111000000000
00111001110000000000
00111111100000000000
00111111000000000000
00111011100000000000
00111001110000000000
00111000111000000000
00111000011100000000
00111000001110000000
00111000000111000000
00111000000011100000
00111000000001110000
00111000000000111000

obviously just an example.

I'll have time in the next week to pull out the ol' QB4.5 IDE. Anyone have a Grid with a floppy drive they can get an .EXE onto from their PC so I can use them as a beta-tester?
Author:  Bug Stomper [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:32 am ]
Post subject: 
Yep!
There's one thing that is special to the compass though - while most systems at that time used square fonts formats like 8x8 pixels, the compass usually uses rectangular fonts like 6x9, 8x10 or 10x16 (width x height).

Cheers,
Stefan
Author:  Russ Krook III [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Gridcase 2 had Dos 2.11 stored on Eprom, but I believe it also had a 720k 3.5" floppy drive.

My 286 based 1520 can handle everything up to DOS 6.22 (but I usually run 5.0 ).

If you could get the program to run under DOS 2.11 at minimum, that would include those who have a Gridcase2 which is a very close cousin to the Compass II.

Thanks for sharing the info everyone, and thans to Stephan and JudgeDoug for stepping up to finally tackle this project!

Russ
Author:  Russ Krook III [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Bug Stomper wrote:
Russ,
I had to edit the data in the post above. The correct screen size is 512x240.


Thanks for the info Stephan! I'll update the FAQ as well!

Russ
Author:  judgedoug [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Russ Krook III wrote:
Gridcase 2 had Dos 2.11 stored on Eprom, but I believe it also had a 720k 3.5" floppy drive.

My 286 based 1520 can handle everything up to DOS 6.22 (but I usually run 5.0 ).

If you could get the program to run under DOS 2.11 at minimum, that would include those who have a Gridcase2 which is a very close cousin to the Compass II.

Thanks for sharing the info everyone, and thans to Stephan and JudgeDoug for stepping up to finally tackle this project!

Russ


I'm not sure if I can get compatibility with pre-DOS 3.x - there were a lot of OS features added in 3.x that made, well, MS-DOS actually usable (IMHO). Would it be better to have a 720k DOS 3.x boot disk? Is MS-DOS 3.x legacy enough that's it's freeware now?

A huge problem will be testing this, as I'd be developing it in a DOSbox - I don't have one of these mythical Grid beasts that you guys all seem to have in spades :)

In any case, as mentioned in a previous post, I'll need at the bare minimum a binary representation of the (three?) fonts used so I could store them in image arrays and display them on-screen.
Author:  Bug Stomper [ Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
My 1137 is running DOS 2.11 too.

Cheers,
Stefan
Author:  Russ Krook III [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Any progress? :)

For those needing the files, here's a bunch of Grid system files.

http://www.ari-service.com/ftp/GRID/

Here's some old DOS versions...

http://oldfiles.org.uk/powerload/bootdisk.htm

I can't find the site where I got my DOS for the grid but I'm pretty sure it's not the last one.

Russ
Page 1 of 3 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/