I enquired with the Home Office recently about weapons such as the Pulse Rifle, Stormtrooper Blaster and Blade Runner blaster. As per usual, they replied in legalese...




...the general test of whether it is distinguishable from a real firearm, [is] taking into account its size, colour etc

I think that's conclusive; better get skirmishing, folks because this...

http://www.hollywood-collectibles.com/aliens.html

is not happening for you.
 

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"Everybody online... lookin' good".
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The truth of the matter is that they haven't a clue, should it ever go to court the prosecuting case would be entirely dependant on a 'police expert' to 'define' exactly what a 'realistic replica firearm' is.

More make it up as we go along legislation...

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I can make 1/1 USCM Dogtags, engraved with YOUR rank, name & service number.

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Building your own Pulse Rifle?



I can supply GENUINE Franchi production SPAS 12 Handguard/ Sleeve Combos - Take your M41A to another level.

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PM me for more info.

That's been their stance from day one, as that's what's written into the legislation.

Alternatively, start making films, or running a museum...

Taken from the Act:

(2) For the purposes of this section, an imitation firearm is not (except by virtue of subsection (3.B) to be regarded as distinguishable from a real firearm for any practical purpose if it could be so distinguished only—
(a) by an expert;
(b) on a close examination; or
(c) as a result of an attempt to load or to fire it.

I duuno, would this "police expert" be the same kind of person who told me at a re-enactment I had to wander around with a cocked M1918 BAR to show it was "safe"?



Or how about that episode of "Airport" that showed one of the armed Police officers, with her H&K MP5, asking her colleague after they had a discussion with an American who had brought a rilfe disassembled over for an event "What's a bolt?"



Or that Minister who insisted that BB guns were "easy" to convert into a fully-functional firearm.



Or the BBC report that showed how easy it was to convert a deactivated UZI into a fully functional firearm. Not mentioning that you had to be a gunsmith, with a workshop and milling machine, and willing to spend over £700 on an old-spec deact - oh and that the black-market price for a MAC-10 from an illegal dealer was only £250!!!



Yeah, lets throw more legislation at the problem, after all, bannig semi-automatic rifles and all handguns really stopped the criminals getting hold of them, hey??

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Weyland Yutani Corp. Bio-Weapons Division - "Superior Weapons through Superior Genetics"

Fills you with confidence eh?

Damn Straight!!!

I just wanna know when the Violent Crime Reduction Bill is going to be expanded to include chair legs and black plastic bin-liners, along with broom handles, as one of the main reasons quoted was to ensure the Police did not accidentally shoot people brandishing fake guns, yet they have on a couple of occassions shot people brandishing the above!!

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Weyland Yutani Corp. Bio-Weapons Division - "Superior Weapons through Superior Genetics"

And they'd have to ban hands, they can look like a gun too:

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Steve
Corporal in 69th Regt. 1st Batt. Homer’s Heroes.

"I'd like to die at the age of 80 in my own bed, with a belly full of wine and a girl's mouth around my c**k."

Here in New Zealand we've had 2 "death by cop" incidents in the last few years.

One guy was brandishing a golf club and was shot 3 times from some distance.

The other guy was smashing car windows with a hammer, off duty cop who just happened to be carrying his firearm (NZ cops aren't supposed the be carrying their glocks even if they're on-duty BTW) was in the area. Pulls his gun and tells the guy to drop the hammer, hammer guy raises hammer, cop shoots.

Both these guys were clearly upset about something and could have been subdued with pepper spray or a tazer or just a whack on the head with a police baton.

There was another incident of a guy who went on a violent crime spree after being paroled from prison. He shot and killed a jogger who was in the wrong place at the wrong time when the police had him cornered. He was shot in the leg and arrested (ended up losing his leg).

So they go for the clean shot with a dangerous gun-toting criminal. But shoot to kill if you have a golf club or a hammer...

I hope NZ doesn't follow suit with similar legislation. At the moment any imitation firearm is legal.

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Jon

'Do not go where the path may lead: go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.'

From my point of view -- I wouldn't want to come up against British law. It would seem that the concept of rule of law, if it didn't have its origins in the U.K. (I think may be the Greeks had thought of it earlier), it was certainly popularized by the B.E.. So much so that in former colonies e.g Hong Kong, the legal system and law enforcement is as serious as heart attacks. From my experience, take it seriously and assume the worst will happen if you cross it. It works even in Hong Kong (in China .. that's a different story, although on paper they have laws and law enforcement as well. ).

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My thoughts exactly. Canada has a stiffer replica firearm law. I was nailed back in 2006 for trying to import an airsoft Thompson. Fortunately all that happened was the Thompson was confiscated, but it was my first (and last) offence. I'm sure a repeat offence would result in a hefty fine or possibly jail time.

Our laws on importation of prohibited devices (while knowing that it is illegal to do so) carry a penalty of up to 5 years imprisonment.

So... no more chances for me.

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I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

All of my professional correspondence with the Home Office, prior to/and after the implimentation of the VCR Act has been a joke.

They would not answer direct questions in relation to the manufacture, sale, purchase and hire of replica arms in film/tv, and initially just responded with the same stock answer.

This was a letter written on behalf of myself and an established production company.

A friend of mine in the legal industry says that the way the legislation is worded, even with a legitimate reason for purchase/importation/manufacture/sale/hire of replica arms, they will still go full on to make an example of you, if it goes to court.

"experts" - Companyman, I see you have met one

I am seriously considering leaving the UK...as I have lost too much money and time as a result of the current Govt. and their inane and frankly increasingly draconian policies.

The legislation for dealing with crimes commited with both firearms and replica guns has been in place since 1968 and 1982 respectively, but this Govt have no intentions of ending such crime, after all how would they be able to continue to impliment their draconian policies upon the UK and law abiding population.

I see they are already lining up unelected 'Glorious Leader' No.2...

SSgt Burton, I thought airsoft guns was exempted from the Bill C68 replica gun legislation? ...or have they now changed that?

_________________
I can make 1/1 USCM Dogtags, engraved with YOUR rank, name & service number.

-------

Building your own Pulse Rifle?



I can supply GENUINE Franchi production SPAS 12 Handguard/ Sleeve Combos - Take your M41A to another level.

-------

PM me for more info.

Just wondering if you yourself have ever been in a job where you are in amongst the general public armed with a firearm and have faced such a situation to deal with ?

Very easy to slag people off trying to do a difficult job from the comfort of your own armchair.

I dare say if you had been in such a situation then your opinion would be different but there you go. I can tell you from experience that when you're aiming down the sights of a loaded rifle with the safety off and you are screaming at some bloke to get his hands on his head because you've been told he's carrying a concealed weapon then you will know that it's anything but black and white.

Seems in this day and age of sensationalism and larging everything up that we tend to conveniently forget that anyone with half a brain and some common sense having been confronted by armed authorities would comply without hesitation with what they were told to do. But no, in a world full of thick cnuts it's far more trendy to blame the establishments themselves.

There are people out there that are forced to make a split-second life and death decision as a result of the armed duties they had volunteered for and as soon as a question mark is raised soceity,the media, the legal system, armchair lawyers and anyone else who wants to jump on the perverbial witch hunt band wagon calls for their heads.

There is a completely legal way to get hold of a replica pulse rifle that is neither excessively time consuming or expensive. 3 days strolling around a wood will get you as many plastic toy guns as your credit card can handle. I don't see what the problem is myself but there you go.

Did companyman criticise armed police officers anywhere in that quote or was he just criticising the VCR Bill?

He said that police have mistaken objects such as chair legs for guns. This is FACT. Even chair legs can be used as a stand-in for a firearm. However, the VCR Bill doesn't ban chair legs.

I believe Springer was referring to this part of the post.
I think it is the use of the exclamation marks that the police have infact shot people brandishing fake guns.

It seems to somehow imply that this was the fault of the police officers.

The Police should not be put in the position of having to determine wether a gun being carried by some complete numbnuts is real or fake to begin with. The person simply shouldn't be carrying it around or "brandishing" it in public to begin with (and no I do not include conventions where this type of thing is expected to be seen when I say "in public")

Obviously, as Springer eloquently pointed out if someone had half a brain to begin with they would not be brandishing a fake gun in public and even if they were, when told to drop it by the Police if they fail to do so then they deserve whatever happens in my opinion.

Re-reading the post though, I can see that I think he was referring to the chairs and bin liners when said "carrying the above!!" but perhaps the wording could have been better.

That said if an armed police officer tells me to drop the "whatever it is he believes to be a gun" that I am carrying you can bet that I will drop it in a heart beat.

Accidentally? Is that a word that is often used to imply fault?

Exclamation marks? Imply blame? Was he not exclaiming at the pointlessness of VCR?

People have been shot in the circumstances described. Stating that fact doesn't mean he said that all police are evil!

The way the law works is this- all replica firearms are banned and prohibited in Canada. For a "gun like object" to be considered a replica it must meet the following requirements:

It must resemble with near precision a firearm manufactured after 1898 or designed to fire rimfire ammunition,

It must not be able to fire a projectile,

And it must not itself be a firearm.

Airsoft guns fire projectiles but because of their low muzzle velocity and inability to cause severe injury or death* they are classed as replicas- mainly because they are designed to exactly resemble modern firearms.

The only exceptions are guns/rifles that have the receiver/frame made of clear plastic (however painting the gun in realistic colours renders it a replica). Other exceptions- guns that are noticably undersized or clearly a child's toy.

What makes even less sense is that CO2 pistols are perfectly legal and available at sporting shops (provided you are 18 years of age). They look just like firearms.

However CO2 guns/rifles fire metal projectiles at lethal velocities so they are classified as firearms (making them exempt from the replica classification), but do not require any of the licensing/registration that is required of actual firearms.

Catch all that?

Trust me- in 2006 I received a letter from the Prohibited Importations Unit stating I had attempted to import "components for a replica firearm". Scared the kaa-kaa out of me. So yes- airsoft is illegal to import by citizens in Canada.


*These are our government's words, not mine- I'm sure the skirmishers here would easily disagree with this statement. Please don't shoot the messenger.

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I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

I didn't say that he did say all Police are evil and, as I said, yes I think he was referring to the chairs and bin liners when he said the police have shot people carrying these items. I also didn't disagree that this is a fact.

I merely tried to point out what I thought Springer was referring to. I think the exlamation marks can be taken to mean that he thinks it incredulous that the Police would shoot someone for carrying a chair leg (as given as an example) but I also think that it is not the fault necessarily of the Police if they do.

I also didnt say that was what he did mean in his post but simply that it could be read that way hence Springers post.

And I wouldn't know anything about special school Gareth so if I dont read or write good you'll just have to correct my mistakes for me.

The only meaning you should take from anyone's posts on a forum is the literal meaning of the words. Companyman is a relatively new member and I didn't like to see him being attacked for saying something he didn't. Be nice to newbies. Or be nice in general! That's all.

Anyway Darren. I rely on YOU to correct my grammar/speiling remember? Or was I just drunk at the time?

Pretty obvious from the tone of this thread that there is a disdain for the calling of an 'expert witness' if a case was brought forward, and the experiences quoted further above imply a generalisation questioning the competency of police officers to do such a job if called for.

The old Harry Stanley case involving the table leg in a bag is well documented and you are right it is a fact that it happened, but it's all too often conveniently used to imply some sense of incompetency and inablity across the board when it suits and to drag what happened there into a discussion about the VCRA is in my eyes just having a dig at the police over one incident. And that is something that I disagree with.

The amount of peope facing firearms officers with replicas far outweighs incidents like the one above. The suggestion I read into this is ' Police expert? Fecking bozos even shoot people carrying table legs' so what do they know?'

While they're at it, perhaps the VCRA should include lighters ( all be it pistol shaped ) and torches too as people carrying them have been shot and killed in the past. There are more incidents where the police have shot and killed people carrying replicas, blank firers and air rifles but there's no controversey mileage to be had from them is there.

People complain when legislation is brought into law ( as draconian as it may be ) with the intention of trying to reduce the number of replica firearms being used in crime or indeed being carried around on the streets, and thus reducing the possibility of firearms officers having to make that decision on whether to pull the trigger or not.

The fact that this VCRA legislation has caught 'prop' collectors under it's umbrella is an unfortunate one but as already been stated there is a way to legally comply with it and get the replicas like this pulse rifle that some people seem so desperate to want.

Incidents like the Harry Stanley one will sadly always happen whether something like the VCRA is in place or not.If the VCRA helps get replica guns off the street ( where they don't belong )and helps reduce crime then great. If it prevents some silly kid being able to buy a replica and thus stops him/her running the risk of getting shot and killed by the police then even better.

The VCRA's impact on a responsible person wishing to acquire a RIF such as a PR through involvement in a legal hobby or pastime such as skirmishing is minimal. The law is the law whether we like it or not. We can moan about the VCRA, question the motives of the government or criticise the competency of the police all we like but the law is in place. If it was impossible to get a PR or RIF or If it really was a huge injustice and an insurmountable task to acquire a Pulse Rifle then I could see the case for letting rip at the government and the cops. The reality is that it isn't.

Comply with the law and get what you want. Act responsibly, keep your nose clean and don't be a twat around the general public if you've got a PR doing cosplay and you're good to go. Simple.

Those are gone here too by the way.


Yes many household items under the right conditions (poor lighting, handled in manner that one would handle a firearm, concealed so as not to reveal what it actually is) have been mistaken as firearms.

However these require exceptional circumstances (which I have just outlined). Replica firearms do not require those "special" circumstances. They look just like guns all the time. They do not have to be concealed in one's pocket, or viewed in poor light to be mistaken for real firearms. Someone could hold one right out in the open a few feet away in broad daylight and it could still be mistaken for a real firearm (as oppossed to a chairleg being held out in the open in a non-threatening manner).

Replica firearms are designed to look like firearms; chairlegs, golfclubs, broom handles etc are not. There is a difference that is being missed here.

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I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

Man I'm glad I live in the U.S.

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One shot, One kill.

The intention was not to insult Firearms Response Officers - we all know how difficult their job is. And IIRC one of the incidents I quoted (the one concerning a table-leg in a black plastic bag), the officers were damn right to take the shot as the guy was brandishing it AS IF IT WERE A SHOTGUN IN THE BAG, and refused to put it down when challenged by officers pointing weapons at him, which by any stretch of the imagination is a clean shoot.

My problem is with a law that effects many people, but is brought in because of the actions of idiots - for one example, I was on holiday in Scarborough, and saw a guy buy an airsoft Barretta 92F. Soon as he got out the shop, he gave it to his seven-year old son!

As a re-enactor from 1986 until recently, I've had a large number of experiences with Firearms Licencing Officers, most have been amicable, but some like the one I quoted have been bad. Another example was that an Officer who came around to examine my weapons threatened to have my weapons taken away because I had not taken them to a gunsmith to have a bar welded through the barrel to render them incapable of firing live ammunition.

When I contacted gunsmiths about this, three of them refused outright, and the fourth said he would do it with written authorisation from the Police so when the bar worked loose and hit someone, he would not be legally liable. (It transpires that this was unsafe, and actually not required within the law, although some forces were insisting on it - strangely enough, my local force didn't, so they don't know why the Officer was so insistant it had to be done).

The main problem in this country is that the Government seems to think, not only on this matter but on many others, if they throw legislation at a problem it will go away.

And, my local paper has a report from the Chief Constable that the incidents of air weapons and replicas used in crime has shown a marked increase since the VCR has been introduced. Some teenagers are carrying them to "reinforce their image or provide some form of self protection" (the words of the Police's Spokesman, not myself).

Of course, we don't know if because of the VCR, officers who previously may have simply confiscated the item concerned are taking further action is the cause of this rise.

But you know what? No matter what my own thoughts on the Firearms Laws and VCR, if it prevents one needless death then it's worth it. I just wish that those who act within the law, never had to pay the price for those who work outside it.

_________________
Weyland Yutani Corp. Bio-Weapons Division - "Superior Weapons through Superior Genetics"

 
Word has it (I'm trying to get confirmation and further info) that a collector has recently had his order of Master Replicas Star Wars blasters confiscated by UK customs.

Enjoy!
 

_________________
 
"Everybody online... lookin' good".
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Ouch... Had to happen some time.

I think that comments a bit out of order. I live round the corner from where Harry Stanley was killed and have done all my life. When talking about a dead man I think personal opinions (of which you are entitled to have) like that should be kept to your self. Especially if your intention is "not to insult" people. And dont believe everything you read in the paper.

I dont think il be droppin in on this topic again.