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 Post subject: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:44 pm 

Location: Venice CA
Service Number: A04/TQ1.0.32142E1
Country: United States
I am doing some illustration work for Armor graffiti. I was wondering if any of you out there have an example or picture of what a USCM EGA would look like?
Would it look like the current EGA or would it be different? Or would it exist at all?
Thanks for your help.
A-


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:41 pm 
Jack of Hearts
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Gorman wears what appears to be a subdued modern EGA on the front of his cover when he visits Ripley's apartment with Burke. I think the Tech Manual also features the EGA, but I don't have supporting evidence for that.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:38 am 
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Unless you are an actual Marine and have earned your EGA, i would shy away from using it.


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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:53 am 
Duke Bronson
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Regardless if you've earned it or not... we (the old guard) have unanimously agreed that none should wear current USMC insignia on our Colonial Marine uniform nor equipment.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:53 am 
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As much as I'd like to disagree with Dom...

Mixing and matching actual USMC items with a sci fi military uniform, will attract attention from real Marines. Every Marine in the room will notice every tiny item that you're wearing, if it's an actual issued piece. And believe me, the Marines are filled with assholes. There's a good chance one of them is going to make an issue out of it.
Even if you play by all of the rules, and buy all of your stuff surplus, and leave your issued items at home... Having actual USMC items in and on your uniform can get you an ass-chewing from a @#$-&%$# Major, or an $#@-%&#$ Sergeant. And the thing is they won't leave you... The ass-chewing will continue until you get out of your uniform. (Personal Experience)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:31 am 
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The EGA (in a slightly squished form) is also on Drake's "Time in Hell" t-shirt. You can see it in the mess hall scene, and also very nicely on Harry's site. I've had some shirts screenprinted with this image, but I really only wear mine as an undershirt for the exact reasons Dom and Aaron have mentioned.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:49 pm 
Lifer
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Location: **Hamilton** Active Duty: USS Socorro
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AaronHorrocks wrote:
Mixing and matching actual USMC items with a sci fi military uniform, will attract attention from real Marines. Every Marine in the room will notice every tiny item that you're wearing, if it's an actual issued piece. And believe me, the Marines are filled with assholes. There's a good chance one of them is going to make an issue out of it.


From my personal experience... I guess I was lucky.

So I put together a Dress Blues interpretation that while it did not have any USMC insignia, it did have a genuine issue USMC tunic and dress cap:

Image

I wore this only once at Dragon Con in 2008. During the convention (while Cpl Smth and I were in Service C uniforms), two Marines came up to us to ask what our uniforms were about as they closely resembled USMC Srv C's.

So we explaned the Aliens reference and went on to ask about my Dress Blues and what kind of reaction it would get (this was the day before the parade and I had not worn it yet... and was a bit nervous about it).

They went on to explain that as long as three items were not correct or out of order, you were considered to be "out of uniform" and therefore not breaking the law (yes- law) of impersonating a serviceman. Also in the context of a costume convention, wearing this kind of uniform is a little more acceptable. But out on the street as everyday clothing, or at a bar trying to pick up chicks you're looking for an ass beating (rightly so).

That was the night before the D-Con parade. The day of the parade, I was in my Dress Blues. One of those Marines came up to me, looked me up and down, smiled and said "I approve." Which I have to say was not only a great compliment, but a huge relief.

I never received a single negative comment the whole time I wore the uniform. (Although I did get reminded a couple of times not to wear my headdress indoors. :wink: )

One woman (former Air Force) said nothing and just shook my hand.

Couple of things-

I used to be an Air Cadet as a teenager. I've had military drill burned into my blood. So when it comes time to stand up straight and look sharp, I can do it without even thinking. That same Marine said that not only did the uniform look good, but that I "carried" myself well in the way I walked and acted (in other words I didn't look like a sloppy civilian wearing a uniform). I think this alone went a long way with having this be acceptable and not an injustice to the USMC.

I think it can be hit or miss. During the time we on the board were designing this uniform, there "was" some negativity associated with wearing a genuine USMC tunic. However another one of our members who is a Marine showed it around to other Marines (who don't do costuming) and the responses varied from "ALIENS! THAT'S AWESOME!" to "It's just a coat" (when you take off all the insignia).

I'm by no means saying that you will "never" get a negative response, but just that wearing a uniform of this nature comes with a healthy dose of reality that "someone" might take great offence to it (and Aaron is correct that if it comes to that, you will probably have to take it off). I guess it is a Your Mileage May Vary situation.


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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:37 pm 

Location: Venice CA
Service Number: A04/TQ1.0.32142E1
Country: United States
Thanks for all the feedback.
I was curious if someone had designed one or if an image existed.
I have been in the reenacting hobby for several years and know better than to wear an actual EGA at a convention or even worse out in public. Especially because I have not personally eared them. I know a few marines. I would never do anything to disrespect or offend a marine or any service member for that matter.

This post was to see if some images existed or if someone designed a USCM version. Again the illustrations would be for armor graffiti concepts and such.
Anyway thanks again for the information and feedback.


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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:03 am 
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Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Service Number: A07/TQ2.0.72151E1
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On a kind of similar note, I've been having issues with my local 501st Legion post about a comparably close issue. They want to modify military uniforms to wear to events that we aren't wearing armor for. Being active duty military myself, I was like 'uhhhh...no'. It took alot of explaining for them to understand my side of the issue. I think it's disrespectful.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:14 am 
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Personally i wouldn't even wear real-world rank bars on my BDU's or uniforms. In the airsoft world (in the UK at least) it's called 'walting' (Walter Mitty). Basically means a wannabe soldier. I must admit i don't get the dress-blues thing. We never see anything on-screen even slightly ressembling them ?


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:58 pm 
Lifer
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Location: **Hamilton** Active Duty: USS Socorro
Country: Canada
Prophet-KGB wrote:
I must admit i don't get the dress-blues thing. We never see anything on-screen even slightly ressembling them ?

It's Expanded Universe. A good chunk of stuff on this forum was never seen in the film from SADARs to Phased Infantry Guns to Spec Ops uniforms, Snipers, Marine Aviators, Recon etc etc.

If you want to know the desire behind putting this uniform together I invite you to read the thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2518&hilit=dress+blues


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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:08 pm 
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Location: UK all the way
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I like it


....So much I'm doing one (With UKCM twist) :)

Edit: "...we (the old guard) have unanimously agreed that none should wear current USMC insignia on our Colonial Marine uniform nor equipment."

Dom please don't get carried away, your talking for a whole bunch people there.


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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:51 pm 
Duke Bronson
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Carried away...? With what? Did I make some wild claim about something I have no knowledge about? Or are you simply antagonizing me again just for the sake of it?


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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:58 am 
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Location: UK all the way
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SFC Baldwin wrote:
Carried away...? With what? Did I make some wild claim about something I have no knowledge about? Or are you simply antagonizing me again just for the sake of it?


Dom, chill out.

I was simple requesting (politely) that you that you might want to consider not making a sweeping statements such as “all the old guard unanimously decided’ That implies that everyone that joined this forum at the same time (and before) you all had a vote and every single one decide the case in point.

If you’re trying to say it’s USCM and UACM policy not to wear the EGA then that’s fine.


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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:49 am 
Lifer
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Location: **Hamilton** Active Duty: USS Socorro
Country: Canada
Kevin I'm confused at your offence towards Dom's comment-

When the Dress Blues uniform was being created in 2008, we all decided that no genuine EGAs would be worn. I don't recall it being a USCM/UACM only thing at all. Unless of course every member of the UKCM ignored the thread (not trying to sound sarcastic here- maybe back then truly no one in the UKCM had any interest).

While I'm sure you don't mean it this way- it sounds like you are saying it would be okay if UKCM members wore EGAs. Surely this isn't the case?

Getting back to what Dom originally said, since it was over 5 years ago, it is safe to call those involved back then the "Old Guard", and yes we agreed that we wouldn't wear EGAs. So what he said (despite however it might be misconstrued) is correct.


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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:10 am 
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Location: UK all the way
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Kev not offended. :)

Simply politely requesting a little more clarity (Or so i thought)

As you know I've been a member here for a long time, according to you that make me 'old guard' (and I would imagine a good 200+ other people) Dom stated that 'we' had unanimously decided. Now as far as I'm aware there has not been a board wide poll. Now if you and some friends all decided one thing that's fine, if those people speak on behave of an organisation (USCM/UACM/UKCM) that's great too. If that in turn becomes formal policy fantastic!

However to say that every person here who has been a member over five years has decided 'unanimously' would be incorrect. People that chose to participate in your thread agreed they wouldn't.


I'm not saying I think people should wear it (or related paraphernalia) , different debate.

Now that's been blown out of all proportion let's move on. :D


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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:44 pm 
Jigoku e masshigura
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I found and read through that entire thread some time ago because I was interested in the idea of creating a "what if" futuristic Colonial Marines Dress Blue uniform, since Lt Gorman did wear a Service Dress uniform in the film. The discussions there were especially interesting, as were the serious debates regarding the use of actual USMC issue uniforms, etc. as a base for it.

With so many threads to choose from it's only natural that some people never read it or didn't follow it at length if they did happen to find it. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but as I recall the use of USMC insignia and the EGA emblem (on tunic buttons, for example) was also discussed in that thread, and I believe it was also decided there that none would be used on any USCM uniforms or equipment. As far as I know that was the extent of it, though I imagine the issue has been discussed in other threads beside that one.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:01 am 
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Service Number: A7/TQ2.0.22139E1
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I think it looks sharp, and the most important thing to me is that you would wear it respectfully, which you seem to do.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:39 am 
Mobile Mayhem
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Location: Rapid View, Saskatchewan
Service Number: A10/TQ1.O.32157E1
Country: Canada
A long time ago when I was planning out my Service C uniform, I wanted to make something UACM, very very Canadian for a hat device, I had already done one of my Aerospace patches featuring a golden goose with wings spread that I drew. I wanted to sort of go for the look that Gorman had for his hat when making mine, WITHOUT using the subdued EGA, for 2 reasons, it was American, and it wasn't earned and I wouldn't want to worry about people being offended.

I had thought of making a "GGL", or Goose, Globe and Leaves, and this thread actually got my butt back in gear, and I have sketched it out. My only worry is that some people might mistake it for an EGA, but I had a good look at it and it's fairly obvious what it is, but thoughts and opinions are appreciated!

Attachment:
goose globe leaves 1.png
goose globe leaves 1.png [ 637.01 KiB | Viewed 8436 times ]


Once I find time and energy I will begin 3D modeling it as a pin to get it 3D printed.

(It looks weird in thicknesses, because I sketch out each piece separately then scale them to size and paste them together haha)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:32 am 
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Service Number: A7/TQ2.0.22139E1
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Moosh89 wrote:
A long time ago when I was planning out my Service C uniform, I wanted to make something UACM, very very Canadian for a hat device, I had already done one of my Aerospace patches featuring a golden goose with wings spread that I drew. I wanted to sort of go for the look that Gorman had for his hat when making mine, WITHOUT using the subdued EGA, for 2 reasons, it was American, and it wasn't earned and I wouldn't want to worry about people being offended.

I had thought of making a "GGL", or Goose, Globe and Leaves, and this thread actually got my butt back in gear, and I have sketched it out. My only worry is that some people might mistake it for an EGA, but I had a good look at it and it's fairly obvious what it is, but thoughts and opinions are appreciated!

Attachment:
goose globe leaves 1.png


Once I find time and energy I will begin 3D modeling it as a pin to get it 3D printed.

(It looks weird in thicknesses, because I sketch out each piece separately then scale them to size and paste them together haha)


Looks pretty cool to me.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:48 am 
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Let me say this for the record. I am actually a VET of the US Army. I see Colonial Marine enlisted rank displayed using Army Class A rank typically, rather than USMC rank. I have never been "offended" by the site of such a thing folks, despite the fact that I wore the real deal. Take someone who is 15, at Megacon and dressed as a USCM Private, obviously, he (or she) has not “earned" that rank...so what? For me, as long as what is worn is done so with respect, I am totally OK with it. I have seen, as an air-softer, such dress be a valuable recruiting tool for the US military, and it displays a love for all things military, but in this case, with a sci-fi twist. Wear it with respect, and you have my approval. I would also be glad to explain this to anyone in person who might find themselves “offended” by what we wear. I wore the real deal, so that you can wear the Colonial Marine Uniform (among other things.) Remember that. That all being said, I saw the photo of the "dumbfounded looking guy" wearing a US Marine Uniform all sloppy with buttons half undone and so forth in another thread (I am sure you know the guy I am talking about). I would be glad to join any Marine in punching him for that. Wear it with respect!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:03 pm 
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Respect is of course the main thing.

I was a WWII re-enactor for over 20 years, and while I never bought a Class A uniform in all that time, others did. Having 20 guys with Class A uniforms, but no badges/ribbons etc would look odd, but we also wanted to respect the veterans and not wear stuff we weren't really entitled to.

The middle-ground we reached was to wear ribbons that were automatically awarded to the unit as a whole so would have been worn by all, qualification badges for weapons we used (and driver ones if someone owned and used a jeep or halftrack), and length of service bars to represent how long we had actually been re-enacting in the unit. Woe betide anyone who put extras on their uniform such as Purple Heart ribbons, Bronze Stars etc!

Other units followed suit - We had a British Airborne Unit where you could only wear parachute wings if you'd made an actual parachute jump (either military or civilian), and no-where were people who's Class A uniforms looked like some high-ranking Soviet Marshal!

I have seen a couple of people at shows with Medal of Honor ribbons, who had they been in our outfit would have been instantly kicked out, and also a Brit or two with the Victoria Cross. As far as I'm concerned, no-one apart from an actual award winner, or a TV/Movie actor portraying that role, has any right to wear them.

As to the EGA for the USCM, I think Moosh has the right idea - make an insignia that is inspired by the original, but not an actual full copy. I think most Marines would know that we're not out to cause offence, but some are very proud and protective of the Corps. I'd rather know I'm offending no-one, than risk offending someone.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:45 pm 
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It's funny...

I served albeit in a Territorial Unit, I was a Police Constable for nearly 10 years. My father was a Royal Engineer, my Grandfather served in WW1 and WW2. I have a very 'militaristic' history.

I have no issue with people wearing military uniforms, insignias or what ever.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

I am well aware of the sacrifices and arduous tasks that people have had to go through in order to 'earn' their decorations and the greatest respect to them.
But is there a need to go 'off on one' at people who wear them for their own individual reasons? No... I don't think there is.
Those who have earned it should wear them with pride 'knowing' they have earned it.

What boils my p!ss are those who wear an insignia and claim to have 'earned' it. It does happen.

People who wear them in any historical sense, no doubt fully understand the significance of what they are wearing, and probably don't wear them lightly.

I have a Wermacht uniform (my Grandfather was on the losing side!) for airsofting and I have ribbons on there that my grandfather earned during his service, as a mark of respect to him.

Get offended by those who might wear a Number 1's tunic and jeans as a fashion accessory, or a set of dress blues in order to make some political statement, not by those who hail the memory of those who have fallen and salute the sacrifice of those who have served both past and present.

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 Post subject: Re: USCM EGA?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:03 pm 
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I'm much the same. I get a bit miffed when guys at the Glastonbury festival buy Army No2 or RAF No1 jackets and wear them along with their jeans and wellington boots, and some stupid hat as a 'fashion' statement...because they look like idiots. I'd be happier if they took the medal ribbons off. But it's not the end of the world.

What I do get annoyed by are people playing dress-up for Goodwood Revival/Airshows/&c who look like sh*t in my uniform! They're not trying to look 'cool'...they're trying to look like a soldier/airman/officer/whatever and failing miserably.

If Gorman had worn an RAF cap badge on his hat, I personally wouldn't have an issue with it being worn.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:07 pm 
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My father was REME in North Africa and Europe during WWII, and I have all his awards carefully stored away.

Strangely enough, it was never veterans who were offended by our appearance, but modern "do-gooders" - we put a static display on at a wargames show at a University about 15 years or so ago, and they banned our German units from wearing uniforms as they found it "offensive and racist" (Dark Age re-enactors based at the same place also told a black guy that he could join their group, but would have to be a slave). People came to a historical re-enactment event and complained that we "glorified war", but not sure what they were expecting was going to be happening at such an event!

Not sure if you caught that BBC documentary that tried to prove that anyone dressed in a German WWII uniform was a neo-nazi, and secretly recorded two members making anti-Islamic comments in the beer tent. They of course failed to acknowledge that from experience, I guarantee that people dressed as GIs, Tommies, Yanks, Rebs, Romans, Spartans, Imperial Stormtroopers, Klingons, and all manner of things may also express such opinions!

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