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 Post subject: Question on the new Predator film
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:43 am 

Country: United States
I bought it when it came out on iTunes and watched it. I have been re watching it over and over and each time I catch a new deal.

The beginning showcases the tribal nature of the predators as shown in the comics.

The evolution aspect I think was a way to give some creative purpose for the different look. The look actually works and is better to a degree. Though I am a fan of the original look...

Involving the child is really a return and homage to Aliens. This actually markets things more to the younger audience. An arguably clever move to market more collectibles and toys.

The female scientist has a stunning resemblance to Machiko in the comics. This could point to further directions in new films.

There is one big question in the comics as to how does hyperdyne get their interstellar drives. The next one could potentially tie things in on evolution of the story.

Do you think we will see another sequel?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:56 am 
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I haven't seen it but based on the reception and box office numbers, I would say Predator is a dead franchise for a while. Shane Black should have known better. :(


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:24 pm 
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It was set up for a sequel, however for some reason I dont understand it is hated.

I wasnt sure about the evolution aspect, and apparently every new Predator needs to bigger than those that proceeded it.

However overall, I really enjoyed it. Meanwhile people are lapping up the Alien prequel.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:10 pm 

Location: ATX
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UGH, I was seriously disappointed in The Predator. Went in with no expectations, and it was still blah. Had some funny parts but lots of missed opportunity.

Sci-fi/action/horror needs to be simplified and the story/writing has to flow.

It felt too Bay-influenced, and I could care less about any of the characters.

And don't get me started on that suit.

(I also dislike the Covenant and Prometheus movies. Well made movies, but disagree with the David creates aliens choice.)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:08 pm 
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sadly all the new franchise stuff like aliens predator and even star wars is trying to piss on all the old film fans and follow the same basic story with just trying to get as many explosions and flashy cgi in as they can even if it makes no sense to the series


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 Post subject: Re: Question on the new Predator film
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:33 pm 

Location: Wellywood, New Zealand.
Service Number: A10/TQ0.0.82146E1
Country: New Zealand
knoxvilles_joker wrote:
Involving the child is really a return and homage to Aliens. This actually markets things more to the younger audience. An arguably clever move to market more collectibles and toys.


How young an audience are you meaning? In my teens / 20s, I was very much put off films that [needlessly?] included children into the storyline (esp that tired trope of the kid/s being smarter than all the adults / saving the day). The Aliens movie being one of the exceptions to that feeling.
And if you're meaning marketing [toys] to a younger group than than that, I think that's pretty unlikely, given the movie is R rated. I'd not be surprised if NECA put out something for Pred 2018, but gone are the days of every new [non-G rated/Disney, etc] movie pushing a line of toys to a target market that's too young to have "legally" seen the film. Just my $0.02 anyways.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:37 pm 
Galaxy-hopping garbage man

Country: United Kingdom
Hybrid wrote:
however for some reason I dont understand it is hated.

It's a rapid-fire-witty-dialogue fest, of the Shane Black variety.
Every character is just BanterBanterBanterBanterBanterBanter all the way along. Think how many cool lines Predator 1987 has. Now try and score 12 times as many lines, shoehorn them into half the screen time, and fill the rest of it with some kind of plot. That's basically what you have here.

1/. Digging up every inch of ground, expecting to hit oil, gold and diamond dialogue with every single spade thrust.
2/. Making up a tired, cliched plot to fill the spaces between dialogue, instead of using the plot to create space for the dialogue to breathe.
3/. Making up pathertic, pissy plot devices that you can spot a mile off, particularly when they're not even needed.

I think Tom Jane was in this film, along with some token black guy who might have been Terry Crews, and some other people. We saw it at the cinema and laughed heavily at the jokes, but walked out feeling quite empty.... and now I can't even remember a single thing about it.....


That's why it's hated.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:51 pm 

Location: ATX
Country: United States
Ttaskmaster wrote:
Hybrid wrote:
however for some reason I dont understand it is hated.

It's a rapid-fire-witty-dialogue fest, of the Shane Black variety.
Every character is just BanterBanterBanterBanterBanterBanter all the way along. Think how many cool lines Predator 1987 has. Now try and score 12 times as many lines, shoehorn them into half the screen time, and fill the rest of it with some kind of plot. That's basically what you have here.

1/. Digging up every inch of ground, expecting to hit oil, gold and diamond dialogue with every single spade thrust.
2/. Making up a tired, cliched plot to fill the spaces between dialogue, instead of using the plot to create space for the dialogue to breathe.
3/. Making up pathertic, pissy plot devices that you can spot a mile off, particularly when they're not even needed.

I think Tom Jane was in this film, along with some token black guy who might have been Terry Crews, and some other people. We saw it at the cinema and laughed heavily at the jokes, but walked out feeling quite empty.... and now I can't even remember a single thing about it.....


That's why it's hated.


This is pretty close if not near exactly why I was soooooo disappointed. Thank you.

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 Post subject: Re: Question on the new Predator film
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:58 pm 

Country: United States
septic wrote:
knoxvilles_joker wrote:
Involving the child is really a return and homage to Aliens. This actually markets things more to the younger audience. An arguably clever move to market more collectibles and toys.


How young an audience are you meaning? In my teens / 20s, I was very much put off films that [needlessly?] included children into the storyline (esp that tired trope of the kid/s being smarter than all the adults / saving the day). The Aliens movie being one of the exceptions to that feeling.
And if you're meaning marketing [toys] to a younger group than than that, I think that's pretty unlikely, given the movie is R rated. I'd not be surprised if NECA put out something for Pred 2018, but gone are the days of every new [non-G rated/Disney, etc] movie pushing a line of toys to a target market that's too young to have "legally" seen the film. Just my $0.02 anyways.


As a foster parent I had seen many times where 6 year olds watched r rated films and it did cause some serious issues as they were growing up. In many cases the TV is the baby sitter now...

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:44 am 
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I saw it in theaters in September and still can't figure out how they could screw it up that bad.

My main gripe? Why was the Predator that supposedly come to save humanity running around racking up a body count? Seriously wth?

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:07 pm 

Country: United States
The_BDK wrote:
I saw it in theaters in September and still can't figure out how they could screw it up that bad.

My main gripe? Why was the Predator that supposedly come to save humanity running around racking up a body count? Seriously wth?


I think the core behaviors are to rack up a body count. Core tribal behaviors are not something you can just stop cold turkey. I kind of think the predator killer gift was an in spite of the big predator as the guy new he was dead and wanted to give an evil gift to return the favor later.

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 Post subject: Re: Question on the new Predator film
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:22 am 

Location: Wellywood, New Zealand.
Service Number: A10/TQ0.0.82146E1
Country: New Zealand
knoxvilles_joker wrote:
As a foster parent I had seen many times where 6 year olds watched r rated films and it did cause some serious issues as they were growing up. In many cases the TV is the baby sitter now...

Sure, as was the case for me growing up too, but as a merch manufacturer, you don't consider that as a target market.

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Last edited by septic on Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:07 am 

Location: Wellywood, New Zealand.
Service Number: A10/TQ0.0.82146E1
Country: New Zealand
Red_2 wrote:
UGH, I was seriously disappointed in The Predator. Went in with no expectations, and it was still blah. Had some funny parts but lots of missed opportunity.
Sci-fi/action/horror needs to be simplified and the story/writing has to flow.

It felt too Bay-influenced, and I could care less about any of the characters.


Personally, I went in with quite high expectations [because: Shane Black mostly], and although I enjoyed it [well, tried too], it wasn't a good movie. I completely agree re the characters. As a director, if you want me to actually care about the characters, you need to build up audience empathy; just being a 'bad-arse' hasn't been enough to cut it since the 90s (or maybe I just overlooked that sort of thing more when I was younger).

Disagree with Sci-fi/action/horror needing to be simplified. Boo to that, there are a number of goood movies that don't dumb things down (I can't actual think of any examples right now [doh], other than The Thing, but I know they're out there, dammit! :) ).

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:23 pm 

Location: ATX
Country: United States
septic wrote:
Red_2 wrote:
UGH, I was seriously disappointed in The Predator. Went in with no expectations, and it was still blah. Had some funny parts but lots of missed opportunity.
Sci-fi/action/horror needs to be simplified and the story/writing has to flow.

It felt too Bay-influenced, and I could care less about any of the characters.


Personally, I went in with quite high expectations [because: Shane Black mostly], and although I enjoyed it [well, tried too], it wasn't a good movie. I completely agree re the characters. As a director, if you want me to actually care about the characters, you need to build up audience empathy; just being a 'bad-arse' hasn't been enough to cut it since the 90s (or maybe I just overlooked that sort of thing more when I was younger).

Disagree with Sci-fi/action/horror needing to be simplified. Boo to that, there are a number of goood movies that don't dumb things down (I can't actual think of any examples right now [doh], other than The Thing, but I know they're out there, dammit! :) ).


True! Absolutely there are complex sci-fi movies that are well presented. I'm referring to the abstract where you can describe the gist of the movie.

Aliens: Band of marines and civilian with prior experience revisit colony that has lost communication on planet with supposed aliens.

Predator (1987): Special Forces are recruited to search for missing soldiers, run into a space alien.

Blade Runner: Veteran cop is assigned to find runaway replicants on earth.

The abstract to The Predator? Soldier finds alien craft steals stuff sends to kid. Gov't operatives recover ship, hire scientist, rescue alien that eventually escapes. Soldier meets other soldiers and they go looking for the kid. Blah.

See what I mean? They tried to cram too much in.

The concept of certain yautja wanting to "help" humans is enough of a "bomb reveal" that they could have used that as their big surprise at the end. Plus they had emissaries in there at one point? (Heck, the Fugitive was there to help humans, yet he murders most of the people in the lab. WTH?)

There were few to several cool ideas that they could have had an arc of three to four movies.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:16 pm 

Country: United States
Red_2 wrote:
septic wrote:
Red_2 wrote:
UGH, I was seriously disappointed in The Predator. Went in with no expectations, and it was still blah. Had some funny parts but lots of missed opportunity.
Sci-fi/action/horror needs to be simplified and the story/writing has to flow.

It felt too Bay-influenced, and I could care less about any of the characters.


Personally, I went in with quite high expectations [because: Shane Black mostly], and although I enjoyed it [well, tried too], it wasn't a good movie. I completely agree re the characters. As a director, if you want me to actually care about the characters, you need to build up audience empathy; just being a 'bad-arse' hasn't been enough to cut it since the 90s (or maybe I just overlooked that sort of thing more when I was younger).

Disagree with Sci-fi/action/horror needing to be simplified. Boo to that, there are a number of goood movies that don't dumb things down (I can't actual think of any examples right now [doh], other than The Thing, but I know they're out there, dammit! :) ).


True! Absolutely there are complex sci-fi movies that are well presented. I'm referring to the abstract where you can describe the gist of the movie.

Aliens: Band of marines and civilian with prior experience revisit colony that has lost communication on planet with supposed aliens.

Predator (1987): Special Forces are recruited to search for missing soldiers, run into a space alien.

Blade Runner: Veteran cop is assigned to find runaway replicants on earth.

The abstract to The Predator? Soldier finds alien craft steals stuff sends to kid. Gov't operatives recover ship, hire scientist, rescue alien that eventually escapes. Soldier meets other soldiers and they go looking for the kid. Blah.

See what I mean? They tried to cram too much in.

The concept of certain yautja wanting to "help" humans is enough of a "bomb reveal" that they could have used that as their big surprise at the end. Plus they had emissaries in there at one point? (Heck, the Fugitive was there to help humans, yet he murders most of the people in the lab. WTH?)

There were few to several cool ideas that they could have had an arc of three to four movies.


I think the core issue is that they were afraid of not being able to make another movie. I think if they had spread it out over the course of another hour the plot would have unfolded a hell of a lot better. If the movie was engaging many would be willing to watch a 3 hour movie...

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:39 am 
Galaxy-hopping garbage man

Country: United Kingdom
knoxvilles_joker wrote:
I think if they had spread it out over the course of another hour the plot would have unfolded a hell of a lot better.

Do you think?
Or would they have just crammed in a lot more quick-fire witticisms and one-liner setups, as well as the actual one-liners, possibly even one or two more completely unforgettable and almost generic former-soldier-with-issues-but-still-has-witty-sense-of-humour characters, along with some more ass-burgers virtue-signalling, a few extra explosions, and perhaps one more Predator just posing and growling around?


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:17 pm 
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Ttaskmaster wrote:
Or would they have just crammed in a lot more quick-fire witticisms and one-liner setups, as well as the actual one-liners, possibly even one or two more completely unforgettable and almost generic former-soldier-with-issues-but-still-has-witty-sense-of-humour characters, along with some more ass-burgers virtue-signalling, a few extra explosions, and perhaps one more Predator just posing and growling around?


Sounds like a drop tbf :D

I liked that a character with Autism was central to the plot, I liked that it wasn't overwhelmingly negative because quite honestly the fear campaign that has been run by anti-vaxxers over recent years has been awful.

I liked the fact that people with mental health issues still had a purpose, a sense of humor and were still pretty badass. Pretty much like the people struggling with mental health issues in my real life.

I liked that they were portrayed as victims. One persons virtue-signalling is another persons representation I guess.

The lab scene with the Predator was a timely reminder that these things are powerful in their own right, even if it did not jive with the whole savior of humanity thing the plot had going on.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:37 pm 

Country: United States
Hybrid wrote:
Ttaskmaster wrote:
Or would they have just crammed in a lot more quick-fire witticisms and one-liner setups, as well as the actual one-liners, possibly even one or two more completely unforgettable and almost generic former-soldier-with-issues-but-still-has-witty-sense-of-humour characters, along with some more ass-burgers virtue-signalling, a few extra explosions, and perhaps one more Predator just posing and growling around?


Sounds like a drop tbf :D

I liked that a character with Autism was central to the plot, I liked that it wasn't overwhelmingly negative because quite honestly the fear campaign that has been run by anti-vaxxers over recent years has been awful.

I liked the fact that people with mental health issues still had a purpose, a sense of humor and were still pretty badass. Pretty much like the people struggling with mental health issues in my real life.

I liked that they were portrayed as victims. One persons virtue-signalling is another persons representation I guess.

The lab scene with the Predator was a timely reminder that these things are powerful in their own right, even if it did not jive with the whole savior of humanity thing the plot had going on.



I think the lab scene was a core scene, but I think there needed to be more introduction to the tribal infighting going on. He was pissed one, but two if he was humanities savior, he needed to make the appearance that he fought out of there and was actually hiding the lab from his actual killer ensuring we had a fighting chance for next time. The predator MO is to destroy all traces of their technology. They do not want the unworthy to be capable of actually hurting them.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:25 pm 
Galaxy-hopping garbage man

Country: United Kingdom
Hybrid wrote:
I liked...

I liked a lot of the ideas behind everything you mentioned, but felt they were just splattered onto the page in whatever cliched form was already to hand.

For example, the autistic kid.
Had he been portrayed as a more typical autistic, rather than the socially retarded savant that everyone else is doing, I might have paid attention.

Indeed, it's become quite the fashion now to have such a character in your TV show. Token black guy, token gay, token atypical female role, token Aspie.
The black guy has to be a Richard Pryor/Eddie Murphy/Will Smith/Chris Rock style comedic focus, the gay has to be a fashion god and camp as fuck, the female is usually a sugar-free, caffeine-free, diet Buffy/Charmed clone that's long past it's sell-by date (because they couldn't graps teh formula for Ripley or Sarah Connor). The Aspie is just lifted off Rain Man, The Good Doctor, Mercury Rising, and all the usual portrayals.
^ This is why I feel it's virtue-signalling. Had they done it well, I'd have applauded instead of just pissing on it and walking away.

Same for the ''mental health' victims - Were they?
They didn't really spend any time developing the characters, or even giving them depth. They were again just cardboard cutout cliches slapped together in whatever set up was juuuuuuuuust enough of a vehicle for the funny line delivery setup.

I get the distinct impression that Shane Black, as he tends to, wrote a lot of great stuff for this film but, as the director of a 20th Century Fox film, was not the one actually calling the shots...


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:32 pm 

Location: ATX
Country: United States
Ttaskmaster wrote:
Hybrid wrote:
I liked...

I liked a lot of the ideas behind everything you mentioned, but felt they were just splattered onto the page in whatever cliched form was already to hand.

For example, the autistic kid.
Had he been portrayed as a more typical autistic, rather than the socially retarded savant that everyone else is doing, I might have paid attention.

Indeed, it's become quite the fashion now to have such a character in your TV show. Token black guy, token gay, token atypical female role, token Aspie.
The black guy has to be a Richard Pryor/Eddie Murphy/Will Smith/Chris Rock style comedic focus, the gay has to be a fashion god and camp as fuck, the female is usually a sugar-free, caffeine-free, diet Buffy/Charmed clone that's long past it's sell-by date (because they couldn't graps teh formula for Ripley or Sarah Connor). The Aspie is just lifted off Rain Man, The Good Doctor, Mercury Rising, and all the usual portrayals.
^ This is why I feel it's virtue-signalling. Had they done it well, I'd have applauded instead of just pissing on it and walking away.

Same for the ''mental health' victims - Were they?
They didn't really spend any time developing the characters, or even giving them depth. They were again just cardboard cutout cliches slapped together in whatever set up was juuuuuuuuust enough of a vehicle for the funny line delivery setup.

I get the distinct impression that Shane Black, as he tends to, wrote a lot of great stuff for this film but, as the director of a 20th Century Fox film, was not the one actually calling the shots...


Again, lots of opportunity missed indeed.

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