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 Post subject: Pulse madness! The "Hero"- (All new upgrades, page 3)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:47 pm 
THAT guy
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I mentioned this in a few other threads, but am finally starting my WIP thread for these. My first pulse build has been retired (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14400&hilit=fish+tank+bar) and I sold my modified matrix a while back. This has resulted in a void where I have nothing to 'play with'.

As things often do, one thing led to another and quickly spiraled out of control. I am now attempting 3 pulse builds.

-A "Hero" build (or as close as I care to get)
-A "Stunt" build for public trooping (ideally with sounds)
-A "2/3" scale mini pulse for the little guy
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As for the 2/3rd scale:
14 years ago I bought an airsoft SPAS 12 thinking I would build a pulse with it. Obviously it was too small. I didn't realize at the time just how under-scale it was, so naturally I never did anything with it. It sat in a box for 10 years never seeing the light of day. When my son was born I was thinking "OK, now this will be for HIS pulse. Now he is almost 4, and already has marine armour, so I felt its time to get serious about building his pulse. I finally scored an appropriately sized Thompson to pair with it, so I will be documenting this build in another thread!


As far as my "Stunt" one
When I finally scored an affordable HCG pulse, I couldnt see wasting the resin parts. (Mine did not come apart as smoothly as others have reported, btw. A lot of heat and force was required and some damage occured. Big thanks to Matsuo for his turorial though. It was very valuable).
- I already picked up a Majenko board for it
- I havent decided if I will scratch build or use the vent and stock from the HCG. I do want to be able to sling it over my shoulder so I don't think all plastic will work here.
- I havent sorted it out yet, but the plan is to make sounds for this. Like many others, Tony's pulse sounds during last year's colony sweep at D*con was pretty cool and I hope to be able to slap something together.



As for the "hero" one
It takes all my will power to avoid throwing all the parts into my bed then rolling around naked in them.

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-HCG shrouds, vent and stock (although I may scratch build heavier duty stocks and vents myself)
-SD Studios front block
-Real SPAS cage/slide
-King Arms Thompson (not flashy, but functional. It will due for now. Have the lowers and magazines always been plastic?!)
-Matrix short Mag (its metal at least, unlike the plastic one that came with the Thompson)
-APS CAM870 shell cycling Airsoft shotgun (this thing is pretty amazing, and doesn't need to be deactivated!)

I still have a lot to figure out on this thing. Mag base (resin HCG, SD replacement, or other?), barrel solution (extend or replace?), and countless other things will pop up, I'm sure.

Anyways, this is where the carnage will be documented. Wish me luck.


****EDIT 01/06/15*****
-As most anyone could have predicted, it turns out its rather confusing to document 3 different builds on one thread. I have decided to split them up after all.
As I make progress on the other builds, I will give them their own thread. This one is now the "hero thread" and previously supplied pictures for the other 2 builds have been moved.


Last edited by bigbisont on Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:54 pm, edited 13 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:46 pm 
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Wow, will you adopt me and build me a PR too?

This thread is going to be epic!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:29 am 
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My eyes are definitely on your 2/3rd build!, I have started collecting up pieces to do one myself. I have never found an airsoft Thompson that small!

I will be PMing you with a few questions soon!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:56 am 
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Just watched some videos on the APS CAM870, that thing is awesome!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:05 pm 
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retrogarde wrote:
Wow, will you adopt me and build me a PR too?

This thread is going to be epic!


You know I fear the "only child syndrome" this kid is probably being raised with. Little bugger will be spoiled rotten. Maybe I should adopt him a sibling! Your on the list!

Moosh89 wrote:
My eyes are definitely on your 2/3rd build!, I have started collecting up pieces to do one myself. I have never found an airsoft Thompson that small!

I will be PMing you with a few questions soon!


Great! I hope this helps.

robiwon wrote:
Just watched some videos on the APS CAM870, that thing is awesome!


I took this thing apart last night and am only more impressed. I put details of dis-assembly in the airsoft section, but suffice to say reports of it being "realistic" are practically understatements. There are some minor differences, but its hard to imagine how it could be more "real" (besides a firing pin for live ammo, of course).

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Side note, as best I can tell, the only thing that is different dimension wise is the loading port on the bottom. I tried to see if it would cycle an SD Studios grenade. It will NOT. The port on the bottom is too narrow. I suspect this is by design to keep clowns from loading live shells into it. Spat grenades are a bit narrower than SD ones, so it might work, but the steel extraction bolt is likely to rip the ridge off the resin grenade. I havent tried it.



Also a semi-related note, I purchased this 'tool' to help me out in building my brother's Xmas present (A Jayne Cobb pistol), but I realized THANK GOODNESS I HAVE IT. For $22 shipped (with a coupon), you can get this stand that turns a regular angle grinder into a metal cutting chop-saw. Precise and straight cuts! A MUST for anyone about to chop expensive things. I can't recommend one enough. I haven't cut anything on the shotgun yet, but just saying I feel good knowing I have this thing waiting.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:09 am 
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Thanks for the note on that angle grinder chop saw. It is now on my Christmas list. It will be perfect for the wife.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:15 am 
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have you thought where you are going to put the battery. I have been putting together the same set up except a tanaka m870 and have not figure where to put the mag other than a small lipo in each mag.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:26 pm 
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Obiwan kowalski wrote:
Thanks for the note on that angle grinder chop saw. It is now on my Christmas list. It will be perfect for the wife.


Sure thing. If it helps, this one was made by "KLUTCH" and I found it on Northern Tools website. Of course there are others out there making them.

wildeone wrote:
have you thought where you are going to put the battery. I have been putting together the same set up except a tanaka m870 and have not figure where to put the mag other than a small lipo in each mag.


Well....no. I have not gotten that far and haven't figured it out either. I think I will probably try to stuff it into the body somewhere. As of now, I don't plan to get elaborate or replace the stock counter on the HCG and I will use it so little that I don't think I will mind taking the shrouds apart to replace the battery. Electronics arent really my thing, so this area will probably be last for me as I need to do some research into what an acceptable replacement battery(or batteries) might be.

I am definitely open to suggestions/advice!


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 Post subject: Re: Pulse Rifle MADNESS!! (3 builds, 1 dream, 0 money left)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:16 pm 
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***EDIT*** (1/5/15)
Previously posted 2/3rd scale updates in this section have been removed and will appear in their own thread.

Hero style updates will follow.


EDITED again. Forgot this mostly boring pic of the handle, so stuffing it here. Pretty positive the real ones just grinded down and cut slits in the Thompson handle, so that is what I did. Due to thin walls of the plastic, you can't really do cuts or shaping that are all that extreme, but it's passable (or will be after paint).
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Last edited by bigbisont on Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pulse Rifle MADNESS! (1 of 3 builds) - The "Hero"(ish) b
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:20 pm 
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OK! ACTUAL Progress.

New Years day I finally freed up some time to become a hermit in my basement shunning human contact. I got a lot done on the grip and cage.


Nothing crazy going on just yet, just NERVE RACKING cuts.
-Measure 40 times, cut once (too small because I cutting 'not enough' is always better than accidentally cutting too much).
-Measure another couple dozen times then cut not enough again.
-Measure and cut again.
-Panic and think you cut too much anyways, so bust out the hand file because doing it by hand is the only way to be sure you wont accidentally take too much!

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Then on to the cage using the handy "step by step" posted online (can't for the life of me remember who the original author was, but now a common google search brings it up).
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Then same nerve racking series of cutting and grinding and filing
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Now for a quick tip: Be extra careful on the bottom "loading port" because there is a curvature that does an optical illusion thing. When looking down the side you think you made a good clean cut, but when you set it upright you realize it tapered down and shells/grenades do NOT fit. You need to make sure you cut the sides with the grenade launcher perfectly upright, or your loading port will bottle neck.
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But now its looking like a pretty good start
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:35 pm 
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I'm sooooooo jealous!

If I ever win the lottery I'm going to pay someone some serious cash to make me a few of these. It's beyond my skill level, that's for sure!

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 Post subject: Re: Pulse Rifle MADNESS! (1 of 3 builds) - The "Hero"(ish) b
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:36 pm 
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Over the following weekend I made even better (for the most part) progress on "milling down" the HCG shrouds to fit the Thompson.

I remember reading in one post that the Great Matsuo said "Cutting down an HCG shroud is not really for a guy with a dremel tool. It really should be milled".

Well...he was right!!! WHAT A PITA!!!!! To be fair, I didn't attach this with just a dremel tool. I had TWO dremel tools, a drill press with milling bits, an angle grinder contraption, and numerous old fashioned files.
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Believe me, I used everything and wish I had more.

STEP 1 - Getting rid of the 'nubs'/studs
For those who didnt know, HCG shrouds are not meant to play nice. They are meant to fit the HCG resin thompson with these little studs glued in.

Now if you are using one of Tommin's barrel/GL adaptors, you probably need to remove the front nubs. I plan on extending the barrel so I didnt need to touch the ones in the front.
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In fact, on both sides, the only nubs I need to grind down/remove completely were the back two along the bottom rail. The other nubs were not in my way and I actually plan to utilize the ones around the grenade launcher port (I will explain shortly).

STEP 2 - Widing the bottom rails
So after hours of trimming, grinding, shaping, filing and WIDENING the bottom rails (because again, HCG only wanted to fit their own resin thompson, they didnt plan for people to use them on real/airsoft ones.
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I ended up with a set of rails that fit.
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 Post subject: Re: Pulse Rifle MADNESS! (1 of 3 builds) - The "Hero"(ish) b
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:05 pm 
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retrogarde wrote:
I'm sooooooo jealous!

If I ever win the lottery I'm going to pay someone some serious cash to make me a few of these. It's beyond my skill level, that's for sure!


Dude, I must admit I am not sure I knew myself what I was getting into! But so far nothing crazy disastrous. But that is a good segway into my near disastrous and actually interesting (at least to me) next adventure!


Assembling the Grenade Launcher (and making all the guts fit).

Its hard to say what cuts were the most stressful, but since I screwed these up more than the others, I am going to go with the shotgun cuts! I am going to try and elaborate on WHY things needed to be done the way they were, again, because I hope this is useful to others.

-First up, get brave and CHOP!
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-Then get even braver and CHOP!
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-AND SCREW UP!!!!! AAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :shock: :shock:
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THIS...is the "spring". I had read on another thread where Matsuo warned someone NOT to "cut the spring" as you had to "maintain tension". I am sorry to say I didn't know what he was talking about, and I did not further research it. ugh.

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As you can see (from my scribble drawing) that Spring is what pushes the cylinder that pushes that hammer. If I "lose tension" (by say...cutting off the bottom so the spring shoots out the bottom?!?!) then the hammer can no longer fall and you lose "firing" function.

Now Disclaimer: This does not matter IF you are using a deactivated 870 or an airsoft 870 does doesn't use a 'hammer' to initiate firing. Along with that, since they don't need to maintain the firing function, the entire trigger guard can be removed clear up flush to the receiver with zero issues.

However the APS CAM870 DOES need this area in tact. So this could be bad. That said, so far the spring has not broken free. I am hoping enough material is still there to not be a problem. Helping out is the fact this spot just happens to be where the front "pillar" of the magazine part of the shroud comes in contact with the GL. I am hoping the bottom support from the shroud post will help keep tension on that area and acts like a 'new' bottom plate. Optimism right?


Anyways, so yeah, I need to KEEP the trigger guard as I want to preserve the firing ability. This means more cutting must be done to the shroud. The shroud cutting diagram I reference earlier appears to assume you are using a deac/resin 870 with the trigger guard completely removed.

There was no way around it as my trigger guard had to stay, so more cutting was needed to fit.

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Last edited by bigbisont on Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pulse Rifle MADNESS! (1 of 3 builds) - The "Hero"(ish) b
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:16 pm 
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So now the thing is in there.
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Time to make sure it fits in the shroud where I want it.
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As I mentioned before, I left the "nubs/studs" in the magazine area of the shroud on purpose. I realize based on where I wanted the GL positioned, the ones on this side acted as a natural "stop" to keep the GL from sliding back to far. The lower one had to be shaved down so that it would not block the 870, but the other one is un-touched. Its fine and out of the way.


The other side is more complicated. The stud/nub is deeper on the GL, and the electronics are in the way.
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Brutal. Time for more cage cutting.
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I also drilled the hole in the cage for that 'stud'. I figured its there already, so why not put it to work? Not only would a CAREFULLY placed hole in the cage keep it from sliding back, this stud actually could keep it from sliding around at all. Can't have too many support points keeping something where you want it, right? Of course it had to be 'shaved' down so that it wouldn't stop the 870 from sliding in.


Unfortunately the fit is still very snug on that circuit board. I am more than a little worried the 870 will contact it and slowly rub away at it (if not break off the nodes outright). I guess I will cross that bridge when I get there.


So this is where I am today.

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I will say all the sliding around and damage the shrouds are getting just being on my work table area is actually giving them a nice worn in look. I don't plan to repaint. Of course I will see how it turns up in the end after its all over but I'm a long way from that point still.


Last edited by bigbisont on Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pulse Rifle MADNESS! (1 of 3 builds) - The "Hero"(ish) b
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:35 pm 
THAT guy
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Forgot to mention the Shotgun stock/grip attachment area was too big. That had to be chopped too. Also the area around the safety had to be shaved down to get in there (as mentioned in one of the pics above. It was too big to wedge in there on my first cut)
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Next up, I'm open to suggestions.

RE: The barrel. I want to "extend" it, per 'hero' accuracy as documented here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15065

However, the dang "King Arms" Thompson isn't quite cooperating.

As a side rant and for the record, I liked the Cybergun one I worked with on my first pulse much better. I have heard one is a distributor for the other and they are kind of the same, but man I don't like my new one at all. Plastic on the handle felt thinner/weaker. The magazines were plastic instead of metal. The barrel assembly only had one screw attaching the grip. I need that 2nd screw on the barrel assembly to help attach my GL!!!! 1 freaking screw?!??! I'll need to completely drill and tap that second anchor point from scratch now.


Anyways, back on topic. Pics from the above thread show the extension starting at the first taper point where it gets bigger. The King Arms Thompson has the taper point, then another step up after that with the front sight. I guess I need to grind all that down, or just chop it all off at the spot where it first starts to get bigger. After I chop it I guess I'll measure and try to find a matching extension. The King Arms thompson barrel is definitely smaller than the measurements provided on the above thread. If I used a 3/4" inch diameter extension on this it will look like I attached a 'silencer'.
Attachment:
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Blue Line is the 'widest point' on the real hero barrels. This is where the extension started.
The Red Line is what I would be working with if I simply knock off the front site.

You suppose that maybe the entire ring (red line points) for the front site might come off with heat? (torch heat, not heat gun). Probably cast in there originally, right?

Not sure if I should continue with that plan or swap the barrel all together. The HCG barrel isn't that bad after all...


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:04 pm 
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Damn! You're really moving on this thing!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:29 pm 
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retrogarde wrote:
Damn! You're really moving on this thing!


Yeah, things have been going relatively quickly. They are about to hit a stand-still, though. With the mounting of the GL (below) I have used up all the 'in-hand' resources I have. I will have to figure out and order/track down the materials for most of the rest, so things are going to slow down quite a bit.



Anyways for now, to mount the cage to the thompson, I am using two anchor points. The first will be the fore-grip screw hole already on the Thompson barrel base. I just re-tapped it to a larger size and ran a bolt through the existing slots on the cage.

For the rear one, rather than try and drill and tap a 2nd hole, I am going to try and use one of the existing barrel attachment holes. I found a a longer bolt with the same thread.

For both I am just using nuts as spacers
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For the rear bolt, I drilled a small hole in the cage to allow everything to mate up
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Everything bolted up pretty nice. Feels pretty sturdy.
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Anyone who has done this, is this kind of clearance inside the cage pretty typical?
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I ask because I think my shotgun sits too low when pushed down by the bolts. Not many pictures of the inside of cages about the mounting areas. I don't know that I can get flatter bolts than that, but if anyone has suggestions I'd love to see what you used.


Also I may need to grind down the nuts used as spacers. Is that gap too big? It could look that way because the spacer nut is so shiny. Maybe after I paint it black the gap wont be so noticeable.
Attachment:
20150106_205150.jpg
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Comments/suggestions welcome.
Thanks!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:33 am 
BUG SPRAY
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Man I love your builds. They have helped me out considerably. I just scored a King Arms Tommy In like new shape for $85 on Craigslist. Hope I got a good deal. I will probably need to fab most of the rest. Pretty much learn as I go. But you sir, do great work. Thanks for making these build threads.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:00 am 
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I hate you right now... I want you to know this.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:22 pm 
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Superb, absolutely superb. I am in awe, man!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:26 am 
THAT guy
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Obiwan kowalski wrote:
Man I love your builds. They have helped me out considerably. I just scored a King Arms Tommy In like new shape for $85 on Craigslist. Hope I got a good deal. I will probably need to fab most of the rest. Pretty much learn as I go. But you sir, do great work. Thanks for making these build threads.


Well thank you very much! Glad they can be of some use. As for that Thompson, it sounds like a heck of a score to me. That was $60 cheaper than the cheapest one I could track down, so good luck on your build!


And thanks Hahn and...Reeper (I think!)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:29 am 
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Just jealous beyond words mate ;)

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:40 am 
THAT guy
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Location: Virginia
Service Number: A03/TQ2.0.02146E1
Country: United States
88reaper88 wrote:
Just jealous beyond words mate ;)


That's how I figured you meant it. :lol: Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Pulse Rifle madness! (1st up) - The "Hero"(ish) build
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:03 pm 
THAT guy
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Location: Virginia
Service Number: A03/TQ2.0.02146E1
Country: United States
I have been waiting for bolts and metal that I ordered to show up, so I haven't gotten much done here, but I did want to point out a 'lightbulb' moment where I realized a major flaw in my plan.

I had previously complained that the shotgun sits too low in the SPAS cage and my first thought was "get flatter screws" to secure the cage.

DUH! Thats ridiculous. It clicked in my head that the reason most shotguns sit so high in the cage is that the receiver itself is secured to the thompson and the cage is just sandwiched in there. (that or the reciever is milled down to make room for the bolt heads).

Any screw heads between the cage and receiver is going to push the receiver too low. So it just so happens the spot where the "stop" is that prevents the extractor bolt hole is right where I want to mount the thompson. I guess I will just run the bolt through the top of the receiver and into the thompson.
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So...thats a bit daunting but I think it will work out. Obviously I may need to file the bolt head down a bit to keep the full functionality of moving parts inside.


The other thing I am still struggling with is the mounting of the hand grip to the shotgun inside. May need to weld a spacer on there and tap/thread the spacer. Not seeing many other options and I am not sure 'steel stick' will be strong enough in the long run to just build the area up and tap/thread it.
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My spacer needs to be about 'yay big'
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Open to any advice in that area from those that have done it!


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 Post subject: Re: Pulse Rifle madness! (1st up) - The "Hero"(ish) build
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:09 pm 
THAT guy
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Location: Virginia
Service Number: A03/TQ2.0.02146E1
Country: United States
OK, long time since I had any progress because I am bouncing around too much to actually accomplish anything. Here are the remaining tasks standing between me and a completed pulse:

-Mounting of GL through the 870 receiver. (Nearly got it sorted though.)
-Fabricating aluminum Mag bases (not happy with the resin one on the HCG.)
-Fitting King arms 'guts' into the metal evike short mag (I don't want a 'winder' as my mag base will be permanently attached, but the king arms mags with the spring feed are plastic. So I need to so some surgury)
-Addressing barrel extension (ugh. just ugh).
-Stock Fabrication (going with something heavier duty)
-Barrel vent fabrication
-mounting of SPAS foregrip to the 870 slide arm within the cage (building the spacer, notching the grip, fitting socket head screws)




Just some quick pics and notes on what I have done so far regarding the above list.

I got a 12" x 2.5" x 1" block of solid aluminum. What followed was tripling my costs in cutting and grinding wheels alone! But I got 4 passable rough shapes from it. I will continue to refine them and then work on how I will attache the magazine to it. Could get uglier before it gets better.
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I thought I might just weld or braze the barrel extension on, but hit a snag. Turns out it is aluminum (duh, should have realized that early) so I will need to figure out how to thread something on there. threading anything will be very hard as there is simply not much clearence once the airsoft inner barrel is in place. Totally open to suggestions!

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I had to completely cut off the front nub with the sight as I just couldnt trim it into a true enough tube after cutting the sight alone. I did leave the area where it begins to thicken and...once again I was wrong (happening a lot lately!). Turns out the barrel extension OD actually does need to be 3/4", even on the king arms thompson. I previously stated 3/4" was too large and the king arms thompson barrel was undersized. Turned out to be an optical illusion and touch angle to measure with sight in place.
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So right now I have a grip on the bolts through the receiver and am making progress on the stocks.

Not sure this is an industry secret or anything, but after reading about the member who made a very nice vent out of 40mm british 'square tube', it clicked in my head that it is roughly 1-1/2" US square tube. Some welding WILL be required and I am playing with various wall thicknesses but the stocks are indeed progressing. Progressing 'ugly' but progress is being made!
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