I'm currently resining my armor for an up coming aliens themed airsoft event. Sounds fine an dandy but one problem, I've never done anything like this before. I've found out after about 2 attempts how to handle fiber glass but it just doesn't look right. My biggest question is am i supposed to resin the out side or inside of the piece, or does it even matter? Also after its fiberglassed then what do I do? I've seen people talk about bondo on the out side, but i wanted to know it just sanding would work for smoothing it out? Thanks.

Are you doing pepakura or trying to re-size a vaccuform piece or what? A little more info might help us, help you.

_________________
"A writer needs a pen, a painter a brush, and a filmmaker an army." - Orson Wells.

http://www.rookscastle.com
http://www.alchemyarms.com

Yup, as Russ says, info info info.


If you've already got a set of armour all painted and ready to go, I'd fibreglass the INSIDE, because otherwise you'll have to re-do the entire outer surface.

if it's a PEP build and this is your final stage, then you are better to use bondo. As resin is a liquid, it will always run and pool at the lowest point (thank Isaac Newton and Galileo for that...), so you will never get a decent smooth surface with it.

You can sand and flat it, but it's a lot of work and you run the risk of just thinning out what you've put on, causing structural damage.
With Bondo, you add to the structure (in the grand scheme of things).


When making a GRP Fibreglass panel....
If you imagine a pane of glass. You wax and polish the glass, you then paint on a gel coat, then a tissue or skin of glass mat (just a bonding layer between the gel and structural layers). You then add in your structural glass and resin layers.
When it's all done, and separated, the OUTER part of the panel, is what was in contact with the glass.
So generally you always work OUTSIDE to INSIDE.

This gives you the best surface finish.


and I say generally... because you can always do the opposite. But you'll end up having to finish the surface.

_________________
You don't have to be pitilessly sadistic to work here.... But it helps.
http://www.chefs-creations.co.uk/shop/index.php/colonial-marine

http://www.kgbairsoft.com/wordpress

Sorry its pepakura. I have everything folded, glued and ready. Chef, so I'd use bondo while it's still paper? And again thanks for the help. You're making and idiot feel a little less stupid

Nope, definitely get the glass on first. this will give you a solid structure, with some body.

For PEP, what I did for mine was to paint a thin coat of resin over the whole thing and let it dry. this can be tricky because the paper will go very limp. so make sure it's nicely supported.
When that's cured, I started adding in a bit of tissue mat to the BACK, and then built up the back with more and more structural layers until I got the strength needed.
Then I Bondo'd over the outside and sanded this smooth to get the correct shape.

Hope this helps.

Rob.

_________________
You don't have to be pitilessly sadistic to work here.... But it helps.
http://www.chefs-creations.co.uk/shop/index.php/colonial-marine

http://www.kgbairsoft.com/wordpress

In my experience with Pep, I discovered "less is more" for the initial glassing phase. If you think you didnt put enough on for the first coat you probably did just enough. I also worked exclusively on the outside with the hopes the hard edges would be phased out (which they did, but part of that was the crumbling and flaking away of the paper structure!).

Good luck!

Chef as I said before, I'm an idiot. Forgive me but did you resin the outside or inside befor glassing?

Bigbisont thanks!

I'm also having trouble with air pockets under the fiberglass once it's hardened. Ill post pics of what's done when I get home from work. Thanks again!

Resin the outside first. Enough to soak the paper but not so much that you lose all the detailing.
It's better to do two light coats than one heavy coat as the resin kicks pretty fast.
Sand it smooth, again, not so much that you lose all the detailing.

After the exterior is close, then you do your fiberglass material/resin layer on the interior.

Some like the fiberglass fabric, some use the chopped version. The chopped will
give you more strength in a single layer, but you end up with a lot of loose threads that you'll need to
trim off, and it takes a fair amount of resin to completely soak the chopped fiberglass material completely.

Also, be sure to wear protective equipment! A mask rated for fiberglass resin fumes and particulate
as well as safety goggles. The last thing you want is to get microscopic fiberglass strands in your
lungs or eyes!

You can also do a top coat of resin to seal all the stranded edges in. There's a couple people on the RPF
that have used this technique and it gives really nice results. There's a resin product designed
just for this purpose. Smooth-on makes it, it's called "Shell Shock."

You can also forego the actual fiberglass stranded/matt material and do a "rondo" layer on the interior,
which is a mix of fiberglass resin and bondo.

I've never used it myself, but some people swear by it.

_________________
"A writer needs a pen, a painter a brush, and a filmmaker an army." - Orson Wells.

http://www.rookscastle.com
http://www.alchemyarms.com

Ok so here is what I've done so far. Russ Krook III thanks for the advise! I looked at some other smooth-on products when I first started working on the pep last November (its not that I'm bad or slow at pep, the reason it took so long is cause I'm 17 and my mom flipped when I asked her for fiberglass, and my dad wasn't to happy with the thought ether, so i took a calculated risk and moved everything to the living room and wouldn't move it till they got me it, I only just got it because we're having family over and they need the house clean (sorry for the life story)) but smooth-on products are out of my price range sense I'm also rebuilding my Matrix/Snow Wolf PR to sound like the one from the movie with only a 7.4 LiPo (going to cost about $200 for what I'm doing) and to shoot remotely accurate. But I did the chop method on the shoulder piece in the pictures. Best piece so far if you ask me. I'm going to stick with doing that and resining the outside of the armor. My one worry tho is that I wont be able to fibber glass the entire back or front at once and that my resin will harden before i can finish. Does that usually happen with large pieces like those? Should i just do sections of the large parts, let them dry then continue? Again thank you all for the help, and sorry for any confusion.

if you need to slow the mix down, don't add as much catalyst.

you want to work in the region of 1%-3% (catalyst as a percentage of resin) by weight. If where you live is hot, then you'll need less catalyst. if you want it to go off slower, you need less catalyst.

You'll generally get around 20-30 minutes working time out of a batch before it starts to plasticise.
The key is preparation. Get everything ready, like the matt cut to size, all your tools ready, everything where it needs to be and all ready to go. The last thing you do is mix up the resin.


But looking good so far.

_________________
You don't have to be pitilessly sadistic to work here.... But it helps.
http://www.chefs-creations.co.uk/shop/index.php/colonial-marine

http://www.kgbairsoft.com/wordpress

I wasn't even thinking about heat. Its very hot here so ill be sure to use less catalyst. One question. How do I prevent air bubbles in corners under the fiberglass? I've had that problem on the two shoulder pieces seen in the pictures. Thanks!

It's incredibly tricky.... the glass always wants to go flat.
You can either apply a tissue mat, which has much finer strands and conforms better to shapes.

Or you can cut a few shards from your weave mat, so you end up with some shards. Put these in the corners first before setting the weave mat across the top.

Beyond that, it's just about keeping it pushed in place whilst it cures. You have to keep checking it, to make sure it stays down in place.

it is a massively time consuming process. Part of the reason I went from Fibreglass to Plastic.

_________________
You don't have to be pitilessly sadistic to work here.... But it helps.
http://www.chefs-creations.co.uk/shop/index.php/colonial-marine

http://www.kgbairsoft.com/wordpress

Maybe this is bad advice, and maybe I'm the wrong guy to give it since my own experience was such a debacle, but in my humble opinion... Why worry about air bubbles? Once you sand and paint, no one will see them. Once its cured its not like bubbles will 'pop'. If sanding them actually reveals the pit, the maybe just paint the imperfections silver highlighting the "flaw". Thats what I did to mine anyways. I feel like it added some character as if had been "damaged". And there were some major flaws in mine!

So if its minor air bubbles, I wouldnt worry about it. Once you trim and paint you'll need a magnifying glass to even find them.

When I lay up fiberglass, I use an inexpensive china brush (aka "chip brush") to push the mat into the resin and force bubbles out. With pieces like these that have a lot of complex geometry it's good to use smaller pieces of matting instead of trying to get it all done in one piece. When you use mat, it's better to tear it instead of cutting it with scissors. The rough edges will blend together to form a much stronger composite.

It may be too late, but have you considered reinforcing with "rondo" instead. It's basically Bondo body filler "watered down" with polyester fiberglass resin. I've written a tutorial that shows how to use this method to make a helmet prop, but the technique is still applicable here. Check it out here: http://protagonist4hire.blogspot.com/20 ... lding.html

Great tutorial thorssoli ! Great to see you on the aliens legacy forum . Big fan of our work , any plans for aliens colonial marines props ? Welcome aboard ..

_________________
Cpl Matthew Rendar. M56 smart gun operator. 2nd bat 7th colonial marines "Rendars Raiders "

I've got plans, yes. I don't want to derail this thread though, so I'll start my own thread whenever I actually have any pictures to show off.

If there's a bubble then there's a portion with no resin, making it weak even when filled. 9 times out of 10 if pep breaks; it's where it's filled.

_________________
AKA: Simon