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Ultimate Squad 'Gear/load-out' Chart (w/ 3 new arguments!)
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Author:  bigbisont [ Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Ultimate Squad 'Gear/load-out' Chart (w/ 3 new arguments!)
In my efforts to piece together a 1/6" squad, I am collecting info on the accessories I need. I figured I would post what I have so far in hopes that:

A - Someone with new/more accurate info can correct any errors (especially in the "Pouches" & "extras" section)
and/or
B - Someone might find the list as a decent resource in general costume building

Attachment:
USCM Load Out updated 1-28-14.jpg
USCM Load Out updated 1-28-14.jpg [ 329.67 KiB | Viewed 6945 times ]


***UPDATED CHART 1/26/14****

(*If you think the info is incorrect, any supporting pics would be appreciated)
Author:  Winch [ Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Definitive Squad 'Gear/load-out' Chart
Don't forget the Pulsemeters and Locator Tubes.
Author:  SgtTony [ Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Drake's secondary was a flamethrower as upon dumping the smartgun he had one in his hands.
Gorman, he got a grenade from where (not sure if you wanted to list that)

Awesome list, very interesting read.
Author:  bigbisont [ Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
SgtTony wrote:
Drake's secondary was a flamethrower as upon dumping the smartgun he had one in his hands.
Gorman, he got a grenade from where (not sure if you wanted to list that)

Awesome list, very interesting read.


They don't show it happening but I believe drake grabbed the flame unit off the ground. There were 3 scattered about after the S went down, plus he was never seen carrying it before flame toting characters started biting the dust.
Author:  88reaper88 [ Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:53 am ]
Post subject: 
Yeah that part of the film always made me wonder. The weird thing is that he seems to have the strap over his shoulder under his SG vest from what I remember.
Author:  chevyh0tr0d [ Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
bigbisont wrote:
SgtTony wrote:
Drake's secondary was a flamethrower as upon dumping the smartgun he had one in his hands.
Gorman, he got a grenade from where (not sure if you wanted to list that)

Awesome list, very interesting read.


They don't show it happening but I believe drake grabbed the flame unit off the ground. There were 3 scattered about after the S went down, plus he was never seen carrying it before flame toting characters started biting the dust.



I think he actually dies before the Ship crashed. They go in to the hive Apone,drake,bowski, and a few other dies. Ripley grabs the APC they bug out call in the ship and then it crashes. To me it almost looks like he is using it as a 2ndary underneath his smartgunner chest piece. I could be wrong though. So I think Drake would have his flamethrower listed as 2ndary.
Author:  SSgt Burton [ Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
bigbisont wrote:
They don't show it happening but I believe drake grabbed the flame unit off the ground.


Drake had his flamethrower slung over his shoulder- he didn't pick it up off the ground.


Image


However you are correct that his didn't "always" have it. It is one of those now you (don't) see it, now you do situations---

So Drake pretty much "didn't" have the flamethrower the entire time the squad was entering the hive (you clearly see he has nothing across his back/right side when Apone is demanding everyone's magazines)...


Image


However during the fall back to the APC he suddenly has a flamethrower as a backup weapon. It's one of those gaps in continuity that we the viewing audience are expected to "just go with it." :)


We discussed this before many moons ago. :wink:


As for the "armour" section of the table above- both Ferro and Spunkmeyer wore flak vests during the drop.


Kevin
Author:  bigbisont [ Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
chevyh0tr0d wrote:
bigbisont wrote:
SgtTony wrote:
Drake's secondary was a flamethrower as upon dumping the smartgun he had one in his hands.
Gorman, he got a grenade from where (not sure if you wanted to list that)

Awesome list, very interesting read.


They don't show it happening but I believe drake grabbed the flame unit off the ground. There were 3 scattered about after the S went down, plus he was never seen carrying it before flame toting characters started biting the dust.



I think he actually dies before the Ship crashed. They go in to the hive Apone,drake,bowski, and a few other dies. Ripley grabs the APC they bug out call in the ship and then it crashes. To me it almost looks like he is using it as a 2ndary underneath his smartgunner chest piece. I could be wrong though. So I think Drake would have his flamethrower listed as 2ndary.


I think I wasnt clear when I said "S went down". I mean the S*$% went down, not the ship. Drake def died in the hive with a flamethrower in his hand, that he didnt enter with. On this everyone agrees.

We also know 3 marines carrying Flamethrower got scooped up by Aliens (Bowski [who's entire "death" occurred off screen], Dietrich and Apone (who received the 3rd flamethrower from Frost during the chest burster on the survivor scene).

All 3 flame unit toting marines were carried off by aliens. Its perfectly logical to think at least one dropped his/her weapon. A lot was going on "off screen" during the Gorman-freezing-in-the-APC scene. When it comes to assuming it was a plot hole that drake ended up with a flame thrower, versus an opportunistic marine grabbing one of the few useful weapons that would literally be laying around around 'off screen', then I'm sorry, I have to believe drake grabbed one of the 3 already introduced.

So thats why I dont think the flame unit was Drake's secondary weapon. I dont think it was a plot hole, and I dont think it was "his". Similarly I dont think a flame unit is Apone's secondary weapon (he took and used Frost's, but it wasnt "his").

But yeah...sorry not trying to be a stubborn "chart nazi". Just saying thats why I listed it the way I did.

Good call on the flight crew flack vests and pulsemeters though guys. Def oversights and Thanks.
Author:  Winch [ Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Definitive Squad 'Gear/load-out' Chart
I tend to agree with bigbison about Drake picking up the Flamer. It appears in that pic and also from memory in the few other frames you see it especially when Drake unslings it after dumping his smartgun that it is only slung over his shoulder not his head and shoulder.

Now maybe it's just me but if I'm carrying something on a sling that I want to keep out of the way until the unlikely event I need it I sling it over my head an shoulder. Whereas if I pick something up in a hurry and need to get my hands back to something else I'd just chuck the sling over my shoulder. Just my £0.02. :)
Author:  HUMVEE Driver [ Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Definitive Squad 'Gear/load-out' Chart
I love that chart! Thanks for putting it together; it gives a lot of information to consider. A couple of things to add: Vasquez has body armor, same as Drake. Hudson has a Hack Kit. I suppose you could also add locators, watches, and gloves, and that Dietrich only wears one. But then (like you said) each character's kit 'evolves' as the movie progresses.

For what it's worth, the novelization says that 'Drake pulls a flamethrower from his pack' when his smartgun ran dry.

I think Drake had the flamethrower all along, as in he's so much of a badass that uses an M240 as his backup weapon. I don't think that in the middle of a desperate, nonstop firefight against suicidaly aggressive alien monsters that Drake would take the time to stop and pick up a flamethrower, especially with how unwieldy his smartgun is and he was doing just fine with it anyway.
Author:  bigbisont [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Definitive Squad 'Gear/load-out' Chart
HUMVEE Driver wrote:
I love that chart! Thanks for putting it together; it gives a lot of information to consider. A couple of things to add: Vasquez has body armor, same as Drake. Hudson has a Hack Kit. I suppose you could also add locators, watches, and gloves, and that Dietrich only wears one. But then (like you said) each character's kit 'evolves' as the movie progresses.

For what it's worth, the novelization says that 'Drake pulls a flamethrower from his pack' when his smartgun ran dry.

I think Drake had the flamethrower all along, as in he's so much of a badass that uses an M240 as his backup weapon. I don't think that in the middle of a desperate, nonstop firefight against suicidaly aggressive alien monsters that Drake would take the time to stop and pick up a flamethrower, especially with how unwieldy his smartgun is and he was doing just fine with it anyway.



Well, I happened to have the novel handy, so I went a pulled it. I'm afraid it actually does just say "from his back" and not his "pack". So the novelization actually sheds no new light.

Image

But im pretty entrenched in my stance. No point arguing if the topic has already been beaten to death though, so I've gone ahead and listed it...with an asterisk :evil: :wink:

I also updated several other area of the chart to include the suggestions above and tried to streamline the "extras" section. By all means if anyone still sees errors, or differing opinions the by all means keep em coming!
Author:  HUMVEE Driver [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Definitive Squad 'Gear/load-out' Chart
My bad - pack/back... it's easy for an old jarhead to forget the little things!
Author:  88reaper88 [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Does it say the same in the screenplay/script?
Author:  bigbisont [ Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ultimate Squad 'Gear/load-out' Chart (w/ 3 new arguments
I have made quite a few updates to the chart on the first posting of this thread. Most are pretty mundane (like additional “sleeve length” info, a few more spotted ‘belt tools’, glove details, etc). But I am here to make 3 more arguments, then a few random observations (all very pic heavy).


The first two arguments are probably not too controversial. Some may say “we already knew that” the rest will probably say “eh, who cares”. But starting off easy:

1. Crowe had a VP70 sidearm.

I long operated with the assumption those carrying Pulse rifles did not carry pistol sidearms (with the exception of Apone who wore his on his grenade strap). This previously accepted “rule” is now full of holes as I see Crowe did.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


*To be honest, I wonder if at some point Ski and Crowe might have swapped weapons. If Crowe had been issued the flame thrower, it would fit the “flame thrower people have a pistol sidearm, the Pulse crowd does not” rule. Further, the line when Apone is collecting magazines in the hive would make sense as he says “Come on, you too Ski, give em up” (but Ski had a flamethrower, and no sidearm…so…nothing to give up). I wonder If the actors simply thought one weapon was cooler than the other (neither fired a round after all, not a big deal to the story) and maybe “acted alone” and just traded? Just a theory…


Argument #2!: Deitrich had BLACK combat boots (same as Vasquez)

I have long been under the assumption that all the “ground pounders” (non flight crew or officers) had the OD Jungle boots except Vaz. I now feel that all the “male ground pounders” had OD Jungles. These pictures do not do this justice as its just a cell phone camera of a plasma screen, but upon watching the loading bay prep scene, it looked to me very clear as it occurred. I believe the women (not just Vaz) wore the same boot. Perhaps OD Jungle boots weren’t really made in women’s sizes? Who knows, but watch it slow and I think people will agree. Black Combats for the womenfolk!

Image
Image

And the press photo, in the light, you can see the hint of green OD on Hicks’ boot, but in the same light you get only shine on Dietrich & Vaz.
Image

*also, why doesn’t anyone respect Crowe dammit! Poor guy.
Author:  bigbisont [ Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ultimate Squad 'Gear/load-out' Chart (w/ 3 new arguments
My third and final argument of the day is…. You guessed it. I refuse to let sleeping dogs lie. I’m here to fight about Drake and “his” Flamethrower again! (aka: the one he picked up!)

Bear with me here and try not to dismiss this too quickly. There was an error and will address it, but the error was not the reason he has the flamethrower.


Here is the ultimate argument.

-We know James Cameron is an obsessive detail freak & the hive scenes were among the first scenes filmed. As such, I refuse to believe that the first thing JC does on set is opt for a magically appearing heavy weapon. Hence, a logical explanation must exist. To find it, we don't need to look to far.

-3 marines were issued Flame units, so 3 units were on the battle field. All 3 marines with those units would be collected and hauled away by aliens. All 3 marines did NOT utilize the sling at the time of combat. Image
Dietrich moments before scoop-age & previous shot of Ski carrying his weapon during sweep and explosion scene citing his continued preference to keep the sling in his hand. I have no pic for Apone, but he had just received the flamethrower from Frost to toast the chest-burster which kick started the action. I doubt Apone slung the weapon.

This means theoretically, all 3 marines would LIKELY have dropped their weapons where they stood, on the battle field and along the escape route. *(Yes I am aware Dietrich threw on the panic death grip on the trigger, but it couldn’t have gone far. Highly unlikely she held on to it all the way to her final cocoon).

So that would theoretically leave 3 units literally lying on the ground.


-Drake is a badass right? Badasses know when ammo is gone and weapons are scarce to NOT WALK PAST a perfectly useful weapon without picking it up. Any clear headed person would scoop up a weapon when they know useful weapons are in short supply. A badass one would excel at grabbing it quickly and efficiently.



Now that I’ve danced around the logistics of why he could…BEHOLD PICTURES that I believe show he DID!

-The first appearance of Drake with the flame thrower!!!!!! (pre- Ripley crashing through the wall, and right after the APC appears through the wall) Take special note of the Flame thrower ON TOP of his arm.
Image

Dangling loosely over one shoulder, bouncing around, strung over the TOP of one’s arm and primary weapon, is NOT how a marine carries a backup weapon into battle. BUT, you better believe that it is how one stashes something they picked up quickly on the fly!!!

Image
Image
Image



-Unfortunately, this next sequence really pisses me off. Thisis the continuity error. This bit of poor editing is what, in my opinion clouds the entire issue. Between the above sequence, and the “running out of ammo” sequence is this dribble.
Image
No flame unit. The lack of one here smack in the middle of the action makes it easy to say “continuity error” despite what the previous sequence set up.


-Right after that follows the sequence where he runs out of ammo. (with the flame thrower returned and in a more manageable position, which is conceivable that he wrangled that bouncing thing in a bit)
Image

The first frame after he says “Shit” as he runs out of ammo is this, with the flame thrower un-slung and away from his body as he pulls the “escape cord” on the vest.
Image

While not super telling, it does re-affirms that it was still over the top of one shoulder, not part of his gear or behind/under his rig or other equipment.



-My closing statement (finally! right?)
The idea of a “backup flamethrower” is great to high five your buddies over, but is an impractical and quite silly idea. I mean, look at that last picture. The pilot light was lit. If your saying he was just chilling with that the whole movie, it means he either lit the pilot one handed (from a "sling button" :wink: ), or it means it was just hanging there the whole time, bouncing around burning his ass, thighs and whatever else he brushed up against!

A much more practical explanation is it was still lit from the poor soul that went into combat with it. Just like it’s a much more practical explanation that James Cameron didn’t write a magically appearing flamethrower into the script. I'm sure he trusted us as viewers to figure out Drake scooped it up when the flame thrower first appears on Drake's person in this manner:
Image


I rest my case*. High fives?!?! :lol:



*unless everyone just bashes me ruthlessly...then I may have a little cry and then rebuttle. But I am pretty sure I've said all that can be said.
Author:  gunny63 [ Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ultimate Squad 'Gear/load-out' Chart (w/ 3 new arguments
gets my vote
Author:  CrashDown [ Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
88reaper88 wrote:
Does it say the same in the screenplay/script?


I don't know if its a word for word copy of the original shooting script, but in the illustrated screenplay I'm pretty sure it states Drake picked up the flamer in the hive (I think it says something along the lines of 'He had picked up a discarded flamer). I'll check tomorrow and put the actual quote.
Author:  NeedanID [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
The idea of grabbing a working weapon off the ground always seemed to make the most sense to me. :)
Author:  25-Serria [ Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
i have the same vest as the smartgunners. steadicam mark 3 vest.

IT IS NEXT TO IMPOSSIABLE TO BEND OVER IN IT. trust me, i cant even lace up my boots or get anything on the floor after its on.

i have a series of pics trying to get up off the curb at the D*C parade. highly doubt he snagged it from the floor. had it threw at him from someone, perhaps. snagged it with his boot and kicked it up, maybe. but bending over? nope.

now squatting down without bending, perhaps. but he would have had to stop firing for that. you have to almost put the smarty at max boom up to get that low. even with computer controleld aiming, the arm would have been at the hard stop caused by the arm design.
Author:  MattRendar [ Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Drakes a ultimate bad ass. He kicked it up with his boot. Caught it with his teeth and then threw it over his shoulder in the slung position.
Author:  retrogarde [ Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Matt, you actually just took the words right out of my mouth. That's totally how it happened!
Author:  bigbisont [ Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
MattRendar wrote:
Drakes a ultimate bad ass. He kicked it up with his boot. Caught it with his teeth and then threw it over his shoulder in the slung position.

retrogarde wrote:
Matt, you actually just took the words right out of my mouth. That's totally how it happened!


LOL You guys... well that settles it then!


But now back to my unhealthy obsession...

25-Serria wrote:
i have the same vest as the smartgunners. steadicam mark 3 vest.

IT IS NEXT TO IMPOSSIABLE TO BEND OVER IN IT. trust me, i cant even lace up my boots or get anything on the floor after its on.

i have a series of pics trying to get up off the curb at the D*C parade. highly doubt he snagged it from the floor. had it threw at him from someone, perhaps. snagged it with his boot and kicked it up, maybe. but bending over? nope.

now squatting down without bending, perhaps. but he would have had to stop firing for that. you have to almost put the smarty at max boom up to get that low. even with computer controleld aiming, the arm would have been at the hard stop caused by the arm design.


Well, yeah he definitely would squat and sink those hips. Limited body flexibility, the weight of the smart gun and wanting to keep his head up for threats means he would have to. You know what they say, "lift with your legs, not your back". Pretty basic really.

Now with all due respect, any physical limitations you encounter are not necessarily ones that a colonial marine would suffer from. The stabilizer muscle and balance issues of a guy wearing it a couple times a year for fun are not going to be the same as a guy that trains, drills and practically lives in the rig. In fact, I bet if you wore you rig every day for even a week, you will find your able to do a hell of a lot more physically on day 7 than day 1 (but not without muscle aches on days 2-3!).

I mean, no one here imagines USCM smart gunners as a bunch of bowling pins that are rendered useless if they fall over right? Or helpless turtles if they wind up on their butts/backs? In fact the tech manual feature a seated/on back firing position implying they are used to getting ALL the way down and back up again during a battle. So a guy that's as in shape, flexible, strong and familiar with his weapon as a badass marine should be able to squat low enough to pick something up and keep moving efficiently. (plus its not like he was picking up his keys or quarters off the ground. It was a sling. It probably wasnt even flat. Lots of grasping area on a bunched up bit of nylon).

As far as the "he wouldnt want to stop firing" argument; Vaz was covering him. Im sure he trusts her enough to take two seconds to squat down and grab a weapon. As for the boom, to maintain balance in the squatting position he would need to lean back pretty hard to counter the weight of the weapon. That raises the boom, no?

its all good baby! Air tight!!! Aliens is the perfect movie and there is a logical explanation for everything!! :delta: :delta:
Author:  25-Serria [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
you wound me! :D

im former military, still in good shape. and i do some steadicam work on the side too, so im in the vest more then once or twice a year. :P

im not arguing that. perhaps he did, but ive tried a few times to get prone and kneeling as well. its not easy nor fast. took me about 5 minutes to get down, and almost 8 to get up. very slow and horriably funny, according to the crowd around me last con....

as far as booming up, its hard to get low due to the way the arm is. if mounted on the left side like the movie, when kneeling, your upright knee (edit: right knee, left one would hit/get painfully close to the socket block) is right in the way of the arm itself. ill take some pics once i get my smartgun back from matsuo...

why are we arguing about how this? oh right, we are nerds. duha. :D LOVE IT.

nice work btw.
Author:  MattRendar [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Love pics of smartguns, they give me nerd gasims :)
Author:  577_ops [ Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ultimate Squad 'Gear/load-out' Chart (w/ 3 new arguments
Could he get a M240 from another marine? Yes.

Picking up the M240 while on auto lock and full burst, not a good idea as 25-Serria stated.

I couldn’t agree more.

As long as he wasn’t firing on full auto he might have his left arm relatively free to grab the M240.

I would assume it was more like small manual bursts knowing that his drum would run out of rounds any second.

Personally I would ask myself why Drake didn’t have a small sidearm and
why the smarties only seem to have a single drum on the M56 and no spares.

I guess that’s movie logic. Heroes don’t run out of ammo as long as the script says so.
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