She appears to press the little nipple thing sticking out the bottom of the handguard.
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| Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? http://forum.alienslegacy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10402 |
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| Author: | xenosphinx [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
Does anyone know what was used as the ignition switch for the Flame thrower? Ripley is shown using it before she leaves the elevator while looking for newt. It looks like somekind of real world switch |
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| Author: | Ttaskmaster [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
Quite probably a real world switch. I'd expect one that functions similar to a gas fire control switch, in that when you turn it, it opens the ignition valve, but also trips a piezo ignitor along the way. Then again, it could easily just be some random greeblie. I don't recall that shot focussing on the switch so much as the muzzle. |
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| Author: | Mole [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
She appears to press the little nipple thing sticking out the bottom of the handguard. Attachment: vlcsnap-132926.png [ 759.79 KiB | Viewed 8271 times ] Attachment: vlcsnap-133967.png [ 647.7 KiB | Viewed 8271 times ] |
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| Author: | Ttaskmaster [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
I thought she turned it? I'd install a turny thing, personally. |
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| Author: | RustiSwordz [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
Yes its a twist thing, looks like a little grooved knob. (ooh-er!) |
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| Author: | Mole [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
Ttaskmaster wrote: I thought she turned it? I'd install a turny thing, personally. Press, turn, whatever.  Watching it again, yes she turns it. |
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| Author: | Ttaskmaster [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
Mole wrote: Watching it again, yes she turns it. A-HA!!!!!!! *geekgasm* 
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| Author: | 88reaper88 [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
Is it not just one of those rotating clicky switches you find on blow torches???? |
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| Author: | Ttaskmaster [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
That's what I was trying to describe, Reaper, yeah. If they have 'em on blowlamps too, makes perfect sense. |
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| Author: | PVB [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
Mole wrote: Ttaskmaster wrote: I thought she turned it? I'd install a turny thing, personally. Press, turn, whatever. Whether you press or turn/twist a nippley-thing is very important. 
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| Author: | Mole [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
PVB wrote: Whether you press or turn/twist a nippley-thing is very important. I find that both work equally as well.
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| Author: | PVB [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
Mole wrote: PVB wrote: Whether you press or turn/twist a nippley-thing is very important. I find that both work equally as well.   
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| Author: | Ttaskmaster [ Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
Mole wrote: I find that both work equally as well. Oh reeeeeeeeeeeally? I may hold you to that... Meanwhile - I'll be in my bunk..... continually replaying the Flamethrower ignition sequence until I or someone else comes up with a definitive answer to the OP's question
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| Author: | xenosphinx [ Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
Anyone know of a suitable part? There are those Push switches that turn as well with the rubbery squeezy tops. |
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| Author: | Vito [ Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
If you look for Guitar amp pot heads. They make the clicky noises. But may be small. -Callum |
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| Author: | Harry Harris [ Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
This is an interesting subject to me as for years a friend and I had been debating how this was done. Often there are two operations to fire something up, a modern propane blowtorch for example would firstly need the gas would be turned on and then ignited from a separate source; usually a piezoelectric igniter. In the elevator sequence we only see Ripley turn something on the bottom of the flamer barrel. Now we did think that this could have been a double-action affair - except that it's rare to have such a switch on any kind of related equipment and it would also have to be designed and built into the body of the prop. Not impossible of course but it would have had to be built into the internals of the prop before it had the dressing or shell put over it. I was lucky enough to see an original, screen-used flamer many years ago and took some photos of it, including the part that Ripley uses to turn it on. Here's a photo: Attachment: valve.jpg [ 110.55 KiB | Viewed 8009 times ] It's simply a threaded screw type thing which just turns - there's no click or ignition facility on the flamer at all. It's purpose is a crude regulator-valve to adjust the flow of gas going to the pilot-light burner. Also in it's furthest 'in' position it would stop the flow of gas completely. What I suspect happened in the film was that the pilot-light on the flamer was running, then Sigourney turned it off. Run the film backwards and hey presto - it looks like she's turning the flame on. To corroborate this there is a behind-the-scenes clip of Sigourney using the flamer on the eggs in the final part of the film. As 'cut' is called a technician runs into shot to take the flamer from her, and while doing so reaches underneath the barrel to this knob and turns it. The pilot light then goes out. Here's a short video clip of the three sequences: Attachment: Harry |
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| Author: | Winch [ Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
So it's another film it backwards because it's too hard to film forwards like the "Eat This" scene with Hicks Shotgun in the APC evacuation sequence?
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| Author: | PVB [ Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
And the articulated facehugger running across the floor/leaping over obstacles. 
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| Author: | xenosphinx [ Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
Very very interesting. Thanks for all that great info Harry. That must of been the gas on switch. The ignition switch was really close to the front end. When ripley ignites it and the flame starts comming her hand is right behind the end of the barrell right? Nevermind I just saw in that clip because its shot from behind the barell it apears closer to the end than it actually is. |
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| Author: | Harry Harris [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
My point was that there is no ignition switch. The pilot-light was already running (lit just before the take) and then it was switched off by closing the valve indicated in my photo. Reverse the film and it looks like the flame is switched on. Much easier than building an ignition system into the prop. Harry |
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| Author: | Ttaskmaster [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
Real flamethrowers operate differently to a film prop, of course. The film one is safer and easier to control. Real ones have two sources of fuel - Pilot and main. Usually you have a pilot because the fuel needs something hotter than electric ignition, or because the tiny electric spark cannot properly ignite the high-pressure spray of the main fuel. In the M240 instance, I would expect the big main tank to simply turn and lock in, like a gas camping stove. Squeezing the hand-trigger valve would simply open up the line and blast pressurised fuel out the end. You'd need the pilot to actually ignite it, as Harry has explained with the blowtorch. The pilot in a real flamethrower is usually a much smaller separate tank, with a battery igniter. For example, the WW2 American one had a small hydrogen tank, with a battery-powered igniter. This was later replaced with a piezo igniter. Both pilot switches are the double-action kind, in this case. However, I see no reason why the M240's main tank could not also supply a smaller controlled flame that acts as the pilot. That way, you only need one ON-OFF switch that both opens the pilot valve and ignites the pilot. I guess what it ultimately comes down to is whether you want a realistic functioning switch, or a Screen-Accurate switch? |
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| Author: | who45 [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
[quoteMy point was that there is no ignition switch. The pilot-light was already running (lit just before the take) and then it was switched off by closing the valve indicated in my photo. Reverse the film and it looks like the flame is switched on. Much easier than building an ignition system into the prop. Harry][/quote] james camerons infamous techniques once again - have to admire his thinking sometimes, i had no idea the "eat this" scene was also filmed in reverse until a few days ago |
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| Author: | Harry Harris [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
Thanks for the info Woody. Let's be careful that we don't stray into theoretical territory though as we're currently only discussing the actual prop. Interestingly I know of two different types of flamer prop - the one I've seen which just has one very heavy cylinder (that's the one in the photo above) but I also know someone who used to own one that (according to him, I never saw this) had a fibreglass 'dummy' cylinder of which the bottom section was removable - inside this were two separate cylinders so this could have been the fully-functioning pilot-light and 'proper' flame version, whereas the one with the large, single cylinder could be just a 'pilot-light only' version. Much safer to use this version when you don't need to throw a huge amount of flame around the set! We know that the Alien flamer had two cylinders so it ties in with the Aliens one having the same. Harry |
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| Author: | Ttaskmaster [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
Harry Harris wrote: Thanks for the info Woody. Let's be careful that we don't stray into theoretical territory though as we're currently only discussing the actual prop. Sorry. I wasn't sure if the OP was after a prop switch, or the 'functional' fictional version (a-la the whole 95 rounds debate) that would mean a turny-switch that actually turns. |
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| Author: | Winch [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Aliens M40 Flame Thrower Question Ignition switch? |
who45 wrote: james camerons infamous techniques once again - have to admire his thinking sometimes, i had no idea the "eat this" scene was also filmed in reverse until a few days ago Yes, as I think has already been discussed in other threads elsewhere (I'm sure if it has PVB will dig out the thread link and post it! ) and I think it's mentioned in Quadrilogy Extras interviews Michael Biehn was having trouble getting the shotgun into the Aliens mouth smoothly and accurately so after a few takes Cameron told him to put it in the xenos mouth for the start of the take and then pull it out and we'll play it backwards! Interesting but slightly embarrassing bit of cinematography trivia Mr Cameron was by no means the inventor of this technique! My late father always used to refer to Jenny Agutter as the "Pots" girl as an inquisitive child I eventually asked him why. Apparently when she was in the Railway Children the scene where the children stop the train after the landslide was also filmed backwards with Miss Agutter shouting "Pots" so that when the film was reversed her lip movements would approximate the word "Stop!" which she is shouting in the sound track and that is how they got the train to stop right in front of her without any risk to the star! Of course I've now reminded myself that I have SEEN The Railway Children! Pass the Mind Bleach please! 
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