First, want to give a big shout out to JP05 (Steve Radler) for his help with this project.

We are working on Mirax's marines armor and are totally frustrated with the colors that we thought were the accepted colors.

I know that the colors we see have had a wash or some sort of treatment that tone them down a bit, but even then we simply aren't getting the colors we feel we should be getting and I wanted to ask here to make sure we are on the right track.

We laid down #63 (Sand) then #160 (German Cam Red Brown) then #91 (Black Green) and finally started on #30 (Dark Green) which is the main color, when we stopped. First, in my opinion, while Sand might be right (seems a bit too saturated), German Cam Red Brown seems too dark. Black Green seems correct, but Dark Green, for the main color, seems entirely too dark and not that different from Black Green.

Are these indeed the colors most people are using or is my info outdated and we need to switch to some other colors.

Steve has recommended some alternatives and we are halting progress until we have a chance to test those, but I am open to your thoughts and ideas. We would really like to nail this and not have to repaint numerous times.

I think on first looking that you're using the right colours, but too thick pattern on the light colours and not wide enough on the dark ones.

Have a look at Nick's camo pattern here:

viewtopic.php?p=145113#p145113

and after weathering here:

viewtopic.php?p=145158#p145158

HTH

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Steve
Corporal in 69th Regt. 1st Batt. Homer’s Heroes.

"I'd like to die at the age of 80 in my own bed, with a belly full of wine and a girl's mouth around my c**k."

Hi Art!

Actually you seem to be using the wrong brown. As far as I'm aware the correct colour is Humbrol 98 Matte Chocolate. IMO 160 is too red.

You're right about the black green and green being very close colour-wise. This is(was) my unweathered armour (painted with Tamiya equivalents) and you can barely see the difference between them.



The sand does look very bright but once weathered it will be fine.

Here's a great thread that shows what some weathering with MIG black pigment powder can do: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9621

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"You know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water."

Yup, Correct colours listed here:

viewtopic.php?p=127291#p127291

Also, I already linked to Nick's thread.

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Steve
Corporal in 69th Regt. 1st Batt. Homer’s Heroes.

"I'd like to die at the age of 80 in my own bed, with a belly full of wine and a girl's mouth around my c**k."

Ah, didn't see your post. Great minds think alike.

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"You know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water."

It is probably going to look totally different, and a much better, when the main base green is added too, instead of with the silver as it is now.
Then with the weathering/darkening down it will look even better.

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Martin 'Victim' Victory
A86/TQ3.4.49421E3
UKCM 13th Regt. 1st Batt. Freebooters


you can't take the PUNK outa Spunkmeyer

So, let me see if I understand correctly. Based on Russ color list (why didn't I use that one instead of the color list I posted above, which I found here...), instead of using #160 (German Cam Red Brown) for the brown, I should be using #98 (Chocolate). Instead of #91 (Black Green) for the dark green color, I should be using #33 (Black) and you guys are in agreement that the main body color is #30 (Dark Green)?

I know you guys are the experts and I will be the first to admit that colors aren't my thing... but ARE YOU SURE? If the general concensus is that the main body color is #30 Dark Green, I feel like that is WAY too dark for what we see in the movie, or even on the pieces we see Terry paint after the movie. Help me understand here.

One other thing I am confused about... is there a semigloss sprayed over the paint after the entire armor is painted? We are all using matte paints, but when I look at any photos of the originals, the paint has a slight sheen to it.

For those who are arguing for using black green and dark green, here is the issue I have (if I am understanding what color you are labeling what)... on the original armor, the "black green" and "dark green" aren't close at all. They are very distinct from one another, yet black green and dark green are very close to one another which tells me one or both of those colors is wrong or I am totally missing something.

Art- I'm not sure if this applies but- Humbrol paints came in two styles: regular enamel and "super" enamel.








The "regular" was old stock and most likely what was used in the 80s, the "super" is their new stock.

We have found that with a unique colour like Brown Bess- there is a difference between the regular and super. The super is off (I think we were saying it looks more green than brown?). Like I said I don't know if this makes a difference with the other colours, but it might.

Whoever suggested using "black" in place of black green... I wouldn't do that as the name stencil across the chest piece (which is definitely black) is distinctively darker than the black green it runs across. However from your picture it looks like the "black green" you've painted isn't dark enough. We used to mistake "black green" for black because it was so dark (probably why black is still listed in the archives for armour). The name stencil woke us up. I think the dark green looks as it should.

The "sheen" might be from the graphite used to weather the armour. It really should make a large difference toning down the colours.

Personally I have used acrylics that I custom mix myself eyeballing the colours to match what we see in production photos.

Kevin

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I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

Kevin,

Thanks for the info. We bought these recently, so I doubt they are old stock, but they are the regular enamel in standard tins, not the Super Enamel.

I feel like the #91 Black Green is correct for the dark green color on the armor.

Where I am having an issue primarily is the #30 Dark Green which if I am reading it right, people think is the base green of the armor. If that is the general consensus, I disagree on some level because black green and dark green are too close.

Good to know about the graphite. We were going to use a blackwash but will do that instead. I can definitely see where that would give a sheen.

That's right about browns. There are a couple of lists floating around and some of them still have the red brown listed on them.

As for the green, yes #30 Dark Green is the main green colour for the armour. There is NO black on the armour apart from the name stencils.

I do agree that in those pictures the dark green does look a lot lighter. However going by photos is always difficult as flash and lighting will effect how they look compared to seeing it with your own eyes. TBH, just go with whatever colours make you happy.

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"You know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water."

Good to know on the brown... Sucks that I apparently got an old list. New brown ordered.



I do agree that in those pictures the dark green does look a lot lighter. However going by photos is always difficult as flash and lighting will effect how they look compared to seeing it with your own eyes.[/quote]

This is my main issue. When looking at ANY pics from the movie where both greens are clearly visible, they don't look at all similar, but out of the bottle, the black green and dark green look too similar to be right. I feel like one MUST be wrong.




Did you hear that 'pop' sound. That was my head exploding! Can't go with what makes me happy... I must KNOW the right color!!!

Something in my mind is telling me that the colour list was matched with a screen used set but that may just be wishful thinking on my part. I do wonder if Humbrol have changed the colour of 'black green' since the 80's. Looking at their colour chart it looks almost black and very different from the 'dark green'. I'm not sure I have any of the old Humbrol paints. I'll have a dig around and see what I can find.




LOL! Don't blame me, I'm just a grunt.

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"You know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water."

Where's nick-a-tron when you need him?

Nick's painting of armour is (imho) excellent, so whatever he says I would go with.

BTW, you've not done the fine width light grey detailing yet either on your pic.

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Steve
Corporal in 69th Regt. 1st Batt. Homer’s Heroes.

"I'd like to die at the age of 80 in my own bed, with a belly full of wine and a girl's mouth around my c**k."

Nick's armor is excellent, but didn't he use Frosco Olive Drab for his "dark green" base?




Based on what I have seen, it would seem the dark green "base" coat is the second to last coat to be applied and the grey is the very last to be applied and is really only on the armor to touch up the lines between other colors. Since we don't have the base green yet, we can't put down the grey.

I suppose the order you put the colours on is a personal preference, as I see no advantage on which goes on first, with all of them only in small areas?

I imagine Nick used widely available colours, but once weathered/darkened you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

Have a look at this TE set to see how vibrant the colours are in bright light:

http://colonialmarines.co.uk/?page_id=46

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Steve
Corporal in 69th Regt. 1st Batt. Homer’s Heroes.

"I'd like to die at the age of 80 in my own bed, with a belly full of wine and a girl's mouth around my c**k."

Well, I dug through all my boxes of paint and I don't have any #91. I do have two different tins of #30 and the Tamiya colours I used.

L-R: Tamiya Black Green XF-27, Tamiya Olive Green XF-58, Humbrol 30 Super Enamel, Humbrol 30 Enamel



The picture doesn't show the colours as well as I'd hoped. The difference between the two enamels is interesting. The older tin is darker than the Super Enamel though. And you can easily see the difference between the two Tamiya colours. And yet they are very similar when used.

Perhaps your only option is to grab a load of different Humbrol greens, try them out and decide which one you think matches the pictures and then we'll change our colour lists again.

I painted my colours in this order - Dark green as a base coat, black green, brown, sand, and finally grey.

Steve - using Darren's armour as an example isn't ideal. Terry said himself that he just uses old colours he has floating around his workshop so they don't necessarily match with what he used originally.

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"You know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water."

I hope I am not coming across like an argumentative jerk about this. I have just seen thread after thread about the colors and yet I feel like no one has definitively nailed each one down in a way that we can precisely match what we see on the movie armor.





My only reasoning for saying this is because you can see some colors overlapping others which means either they touched them up or the overlapping color came after. I do think it is really apparent when looking at the originals that the grey was the last color applied. The others could be debated but you do see the "dark green" overlapping some of the others indicating it was second to last. I don't know about the sand, black green, or chocolate.



I am not sure if it is the color casting or what, as I have seen Terry paint some armor with what appears to be pretty darn close to exactly the colors, but on that particular suit, those colors don't seem to match to me.

While I can't say if the colors are exact or not, the differences in the can lids of the two tamiya cans is the kind of difference I would expect between black green and the 'dark green.'




Yup... I was hoping to avoid it but that is what we are going to do. I am really surprised this hasn't been done before. We will do paint tests alongside the black green and brown so you can see what the different greens looks like and once we have it all laid out, hopefully we can put this to rest. If they mixed colors... we are screwed...

The point I was trying (badly) to make was that even TE armour looks different.

If I had a TE set and someone criticised the colours they'd be eating hospital food for some time afterwards.
Looking at Aliens on blu ray even in individual shots the colours on the same set of armour look different, so trying to get the definitive 'exact' colours is futile, imho.

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Steve
Corporal in 69th Regt. 1st Batt. Homer’s Heroes.

"I'd like to die at the age of 80 in my own bed, with a belly full of wine and a girl's mouth around my c**k."

The downside of our members being too lazy to chase it down.


Steve - I agree. Really, once the armour has been weathered no one will notice.


Either way, I'm looking forward to see this finished. There aren't enough women in armour - especially since I've sold mine.

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"You know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water."

TE is the man and all accolades to him for creating the original armor, but even if you paid $7k for a set of his armor, it doesn't make it right. That isn't to take anything away from the man, but it has been nearly 30 years. He has changed the way he makes the armor so I am not at all surprised that the paint has changed.

Please understand guys, I am not looking to degrade anyone's paint choices. Your armor is your own to do as you wish and more power to you. However, for me, I would really like to be able to identify paints that actually seem to match what we see on the originals.. not something kinda close or my own interpretation. If we feel TE used humbrols and he used straight humbrols, it really shouldn't be THAT hard to match them.

We started this by using a paint list here on Aliens Legacy. That list clearly isn't right. So we are changing a few things (like that red brown). I don't want to just accept the commonly accepted color if it doesn't actually look right on the armor... why would I, or you for that matter? Again, this isn't to browbeat anyone or make them feel bad about their choices, I just want mine to match the movie armor as close as possible.



If we only had the movie to go on, I would agree, especially considering the lighting and filters used during filming. However, we have a lot of studio shots of the armor as well as some shots of screen used pieces that are out in the collectors community. I would argue that nailing the colors might be tough but far from futile.

Nah, we don't think that. We're such a relaxed community that it never bothered anyone that the colours haven't been matched exactly. Everyone paints their armour differently and when together they make a cohesive whole. Kudos to you for wanting to do a screen accurate paint job. Just don't mistake our 'whatever' attitude to mean that we don't care. We're just too laid back for our own good sometimes.

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"You know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water."

I agree. I have all the colors except the brown.

Would be nice to have an archived thread with large armor picts with each color pointed out.




I can appreciate the level of pattern matching that you are taking it to.

That is what I'll be doing when the time comes.


Just an fyi, there are two different armor patterns. One that is very dense (not pictured), and the light version (frost reference picts)

No worries there. I come from the Fett community where we analyze everything until we make it just about unbearable and I tend to just assume everyone else is the same.