Well, nice to see people coming around about the patches. Jesus... took you long enough...

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CPL Conley, D. A06/TQ2.0.72147E1



"To err is human; to forgive, divine... Neither of which is Marine Corps policy."
"In Onoraigh Ar Marbh" ~ We Honor Our Fallen

Well coming from a Nation where berets are commonplace in the Military (all branches,all services).
Also to have this stand out & not be seen automatically as a USMC DressBlue`s.

I really like the Red Beret option,it works well as already said here witht he read piping.
Failing that the Chief`s cap looks pretty cool too,though the beret does indeed look the better option to me at least.

Also Kev,adding the patch also works hugely IMHO

It`s a very hard line you guys are working with.One one hand giving the feel of a futuristic Marine Corps Dress Blue`s. One the other hand you don`t want to be so close to the real deal for upsetting serving Marines.

So far you`ve done really well with this concept & I truely wish I was going to DCon to see you guys in your Dress Blues (evening I presume?).

Keep up the good work Marine`s.
TECKNO VIKING Likes the pretty colours.

Jason

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What ya gonna do when I TECKNO HUG Youuuuu!!



Pvt.
STEAD,J "TECKNO VIKING"
A06/TQ1.0.22140E1

Skype: ulthur1

Thanks bro, it has been a very fine line to tread indeed! Kudos to Kevin for starting this project and keeping it going!

And yes, evening it is...with the exception of Chris's Memorial.

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USCM- The Colonial Marines- A Brotherhood of Bad Asses!

FWIW, I like the blue/black buttons. I agree that silver or brass looks more parade-y, but maybe that's my issue; it seems more "ta-dah, look at me, I'm marching", which would be great for the parade, but for, say, a diplomatic function (not that we attend any), something a little less showy seems more appropriately formal.

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Jay Pennington

Shiny buttons on formal uniform has always been the military way.
For me, dark buttons give it too much of a civi "Tuxedo" feel.

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"The other Gareth"

So... er... any consensus reached on this one?

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Shhh... It's a secret.

I'm going to reveal what I've got when some last minute deliveries arrive (either this week or early next week).

I'll then explain everything I've done in detail.

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I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

Cheers.

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Interested to see what you've got going on.

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CPL Conley, D. A06/TQ2.0.72147E1



"To err is human; to forgive, divine... Neither of which is Marine Corps policy."
"In Onoraigh Ar Marbh" ~ We Honor Our Fallen

Ok Marines after my latest package from Paradestore arrived, I have pretty much got this uniform locked down!

So without further ado, here is my Dress Blues impression...









Yeah- I did mention that there were going to be some 11th hour revisions in the Ribbons Request thread.

So starting at the top...

The Cover:



This is a USMC Dress Blues service cap with a vinyl cover. I obviously removed the USMC EGA device. What I replaced it with is a Republic of South Korea Marine Corps device:



I think the star perfectly fits in with our "Stars and Stripes" theme we have going with the Deltas. The downside is these are not easy to find. I only saw them come up on ebay 3 times from the same seller. I own one of them now. If they prove to be too difficult to obtain or if our military folk here find it to be just wrong- I'm still open to using Dom's Challenge Coin as a cover device. Just have to attach a screwpost to one.

Another small change is I switched out the gold EGA buttons for black ones to make the EGAs less noticable. This is the only part of the uniform that retains the original USMC EGAs- and if I manage to find chinstrap screws that are plain gold I'll switch these out as well.

The Tunic:



Again a USMC Dress Blues jacket with all EGA devices removed. The collar devices have been replaced with Deltas and the buttons replaced with plain gold buttons. Changing the buttons proved to be the most difficult part of this process believe it or not! Not because finding plain gold buttons was hard- but finding ones with a long enough shank at the back that would go through the holes of the jacket (they each have to go through two sets of holes).

I also replaced the bottom pocket buttons with flat black buttons to give it a bit of variation from actual Dress Blues.





My Drop ribbons/awards. If they look a little askew, it's because I don't have a proper 6 ribbon rack yet and I'm making do here.



The Screaming Eagle patch. Probably the biggest source of tension in this project.

As much as I was against it originally- I actual like how it looks on the finished product. This was a bitch to sew on the sleeve though. And I think I might have to reposition it slightly (which makes me want to just kill myself). The point was to have it just slightly above the red trim of the cuff. This area on an actual set of Dress Blues is for the service hash marks (yes?). So I figure on my uniform the Eagle patch has a similar meaning- years of service. One patch on the left arm= 5+ years of service. Both arms= 10 years.

The Belt:



So this is the last minute change. This is a white parade belt with eyelets and brass hardware from Paradestore. Considerably less expensive than a full Sam Browne belt (although cost was not the final deciding factor- looks were).

Pants are still my WOK pants/ shoes are still Oxford dress shoes/ and white parade gloves round out the uniform.

As far as I'm concerned this is what I will be wearing in the parade this year!

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I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

Hi Kevin,

I haven't payed much attention to this thread, so I'm not sure if this came up before: Placing the patches all on the left side makes the jacket look "unbalanced". If it has to be there, try to place the USCM-patch on the right sleeve.

Cheers,
Stefan

Very nice!

I agree with Stefan though, there does seem to be too much going on on the left hand side. How about swapping the rank on the right side with the USCM patch?

Something like this?

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"You know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water."

Top notch Kev!!
I'm loving that!

Personally I think the rank should be retained on both arms.

Alot of military uniform are busier on the left hand side.
Perhaphs moving the screaming eagle to the right cuff might help but I don't think it looks "unpleasantly" unbalanced.

I'm particularly pleased about the white parade belt. I've always liked the way white belts look against uniform.

Good job!!!

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"The other Gareth"

Well, this project is certainly going forward....

I will unabashedly state that I hate the Korean Marine insignia on that cover. I literally bristled when I saw that. I'm a big proponent of using the Screaming Eagle for the cover.

I'm also moving away from wanting the actual USMC cover used on this costume. I may be actually leaning towards a crimson beret.

I still say the buttons should be silver, not gold.

Buttons need to be retained on the cuffs; they look stupid without them.

Rank should be retained on both arms, as Kev has it shown.

I think (?) I was the first to suggest the SE patch on the arm? I remember doing mock-ups of this and really, it doesn't look bad. IMHO, it should stay on the left arm, as this arm remains straight upon saluting (I seem to recall Dom pointing this out).

The deltas on the collar look BADASS. I love this.

I'm not a fan of the white parade belt. I still say the black Sam Browne, all the way.

Kev, regardless, you put some major effort into this and for that... thank you! Constructive discussion is the way to go.

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CPL Conley, D. A06/TQ2.0.72147E1



"To err is human; to forgive, divine... Neither of which is Marine Corps policy."
"In Onoraigh Ar Marbh" ~ We Honor Our Fallen

Kev, I just also wanted to point out this post. Note that in the current incarnation of the costume, you've gone back to white belt and white gloves... which sort of (to me) seems to contradict your point from the very beginning.

Just throwing that out there.

ADDENDUM: I also wanted to state that I do realize that I was... originally... a fan of the white belt and gloves. In fact, I suggested it. However, as we went through design after design... I've become a fan of a much DARKER uniform, overall, staying further away from the USMC blues (in regards to buttons, white belts, etc).

I also wasn't a fan of the beret originally either. At all. Now, however... different story.

Just want to show that I'm not being a blatant hypocrite here; it's interesting to me to see how our ideas have changed over the months.

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CPL Conley, D. A06/TQ2.0.72147E1



"To err is human; to forgive, divine... Neither of which is Marine Corps policy."
"In Onoraigh Ar Marbh" ~ We Honor Our Fallen

Yeah, I like the rank being on both arms but I couldn't think of anywhere else for the USCM patch to go that didn't look odd. IMHO I think it would be better to do without if you want to keep both ranks.

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"You know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk on water."

I have to leave for work in a couple of minutes so I'll go into detail later-

My opposition to a white belt and USMC service cover relaxed after I had finally managed to remove the EGA buttons from the jacket. At that point I felt it was diverse enough to use a genuine service cover (with a different insignia) and a similar white belt. I had suggested white gloves from the beginning.

Derek- I value your opinion along with the other US Marines here- we're all adults and I can take it . Are you concerned that it looks too much like real Dress Blues? Or perhaps the use of genuine USMC gear is wrong?

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I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

It looks, to me, more-or-less exactly like a regular USMC dress blue uniform... with patches put on. Oh, and like some World Wrestling champion belt.

I just read through all 32 pages of this thread. Seriously.

We'd moved from gold buttons to silver. Everyone was on board.

We'd also pretty much finalized the black Sam Browne; everyone seemed to dig that. We'd even convinced you, Kev!

Even these 2 changes make the uniform look pretty different.

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CPL Conley, D. A06/TQ2.0.72147E1



"To err is human; to forgive, divine... Neither of which is Marine Corps policy."
"In Onoraigh Ar Marbh" ~ We Honor Our Fallen

Tough call. It looks great Kev, but DD does make some valid points.

It does look like a USMC uni until you get closer, check out the details and then it becomes readily apparent that it's USCM, not USMC. But at first glance...

I still like the idea of custom "Colonial Marines" patches on the shoulders. Are we still liking these or no?

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USCM- The Colonial Marines- A Brotherhood of Bad Asses!

Well, I thought they looked nice... I might be slightly biased though.

But even those are not going to mean anything to anyone other than sci-fi fans or Marines.

If looking too similar to a US Marine is really a problem then I don't think adding the shoulder mudguards will make much difference.

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"The other Gareth"

Regardless of whatever it looks too much like or not enough of... it looks freakin' cool. Hands down.

Excellent idea for rank on one side and SE patch on the other... although, historically (and same goes for the dress blues of my regiment), rank patches went on the right... so if we go on rank one side and SE other side... I would vote for rank patch right.... BUT, I really like the SE on the sleeve.

I'm also down with the Crimson beret, alternatively, I would wear my DI Campaign hat.... but that's just DI Beaudoin talking.

Small nit-pick Kevin... you have the Operations Merit of Achievement ribbon: in the place of where your Valor in Adverse Service Medal ribbon: should be... if you want that ribbon marine, you'll have to sit at the fan table for at least 61 minutes! Also, considering that the Valor in Adverse Service Medal is the highest CM decoration a marine can received (does this look familiar? )... I would defnitely be pressed to wear it. If you want me to order it for you, let me know... I'll be buying from paradestore.com soon.

Dom- I still have to order a maroon ribbon from Paradestore. The purple was a stand-in. I'll be placing one last order from Paradestore- after that no more for a long while.

Derek- I'm prepared to go back to the black Sam Browne belt. I really feel like I jumped the gun now. Before making this last minute change, I too read nearly all 32 pages of the thread. I was one of the strongest proponents that the uniform not look too close to Dress Blues- and was told that I was being a little too paranoid (it was done kindly though).

So I figured if the belt isn't USMC issue- it should be ok. I thought the whole point was to look (at first glance) like a Marine, but upon closer inspection discover it's not.

Silver buttons- again I can do this but the gold really look smart.

About the cover- how can I put this? Are you opposed to the cover because you do you not want to use a USMC issued cover? So would the CF Navy cap (that is somewhat similar) be ok then? I feel this uniform begs a service cap. I would prefer the USMC cover, however like I said if it seems just wrong (as in it feels like an injustice to the genuine USMC uniform) I would go with the CF cap.

If it's simply a case of looks alone- we still have the A style B style suggestion made earlier- one uniform with a cap, the other a beret.

What I would prefer is the USMC cover (with a Challenge Coin device) and gold buttons, but I can go with a black Sam Browne belt, silver buttons, and a CF Navy cap. I would like to retain the white gloves- just about every military's Honour Guard wears white gloves- hell I had a pair when I was a member of the drill team in my Air Cadet days.

_________________
I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!

Agreed... we keep them, but as an option to the member.

Yes, it looks similar to a USMC uniform but is that really such a problem? It also looks similar to a number of other military uniforms. They all share alot in common...

I'm not a US Marine so I don't want to suggest taking liberties but I am military and personally I don't find the idea of a military-styled uniform offensive. It's not as though we are walking arount trying to pass ourselves off as regular US Marines (acting like a "Walt" as we say over here).

Regarding belts, I feel there is alot of room for choice here.
White belts and gloves are worn for ceremonial purposes the world over. I don't see any reason why we couldn't allow those who want to wear the black Sam Browne belt as a standard uniform to do so while allowing white belts as ceremonial accoutrements if people wish. That would closely echo real life.
As Dom has said, on personal choice.

Provided people are placed appropriately this would not detract from the look of the group on parade.

_________________
"The other Gareth"

Of course! I think from the beginning I said they would be optional- I would just like to have the option.

_________________
I told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME!?!