The discussion of the Alien series of films and the props used in them is the aim, but if it's got Big Bugs and Big Guns, then they are welcome too!





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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:25 pm 
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Garrowan5th

I agree with the religious nut job element. The sacrifice to create life had to be symbolic or it does not make sense. A race so eveolved would not have to commit suicide to implant DNA onto a planet.

However, creating the bio weapons which they could not control ( hence being wiped out on the LV423 derelict), does not make sense. If they used this as a weapon to clean the earth for their terraforming, then when they returned to earth, they would have been confronted by all sorts of aliens, made up from all the nastiest creatures that had evolved on earth and been morphed into new alien forms....not a nice thought when they could not even deal with the first step alien evolution in the derelict.

As for the dead engineers, where were all the dead first gen aliens ( AS SEEN AT THE VERY END )? Or did they commit mass suicide??

Surely such an advanced race would not view us as a nuisance ( are we going back to the day the earth stood still again? ) bit lame and been done to death.

Struggling to make sense of it unless the ultimate answer is full of huge holes in script development. Would love some assistance with this. Maybe my tiny brain is not upto the task.

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If the next movie turns into a discussion with the Engineer creatures as " one section of our society is a religious cult" then any veneer of Alien universe is gone and its just Star Trak 1, Contact, Solaris etc. sudo religious BS. It deserves better than that.

How about getting Gigers Alien back and bringing back the scares. I think the lack of the Giger Alien was dissapointing. I know the creature has been ruined in 3, 4 AVP etc. But Ridley could have done it propely again.

If Ridley does not want to do the Giger Alien, well if he has 2 movies to get to Alien ( as discussed on the radio in the Uk ) then its one evo change ( a human ) from Giger. Unless of course the creature meets other races first. This is all getting a bit tenuous and a bit too relaunch a new franchise....how much money does a person need?

Do we all miss the Giger Alien?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:27 pm 
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I liked it. It's flawed in ways surprising to me but it has great replay value and I think people will like it more and more on repeat viewings as I have.
Needed more characterisation IMO but it's strong in other areas so I'll give it 8/10. I really enjoyed it.
Third best Alien film (which is what I expected). And Mr Fassbender seems happy enough, anyway!

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Last edited by ADC on Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:33 pm 
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Clanger, Hicks,

Humanity has experimented with biological and chemical weapons for decades, the plan of course to use them and out-wait their life cycle or have a vaccine on hand. Who's to say the Engineers wouldn't have a very good method for clearing away the results of the ampoules if the plan were to work well? Then again, who says I'm right and it was part of terraforming - maybe they would just bomb us with eggs and let the horror start? Humans have nuclear weapons despite the fact they're as dangerous to the user.
As for the accident on lv-223, they're weapon could have got out of hand just like any human scientist dropping a perti dish of weaponised smallpox?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:31 pm 
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It's a beautifully made film which looks amazing. It has some clunky bits of plot and dialog, but as a stand-alone film it is great. Charlize Theron (who I was skeptical of) and Michael Fassbender were big highlights. I loved the interior and exterior design of the ship Prometheus and the vehicles.

I was speechless and shaking with rage when the credits rolled and it took about 15 minutes for my brain to reboot - during that time, I was considering packing it in with the Alien series. At this time, I don't think I'm able to elaborate.

It's a good film that I hate. I wish Scott had forgot all about ALIEN when he worked on Prometheus. My plan to build a time machine, and induce selective brain-damage and memory loss in one of the world's top film directors has begun.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:21 pm 
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That's pretty much what I expected your reaction to be, Gareth.

Use the same mantra I do for the Star Wars prequels - There's some amazing eye-candy there, and there are bits of great cinema... But no matter how bad the bad bits are, we still have the original movies. They're unharmed, and still available. ( And SRS even lets us have hi-def versions of the original iterations of his movies, too! )

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:56 am 
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Hicks27 wrote:
Scene, the two team members get lost, the rest of the team goes back to base. The two guys are scared, hear from the base ship that something looked to be moving within the derelict. They move back to the Big Head chamber where the ampules are oozing.

Something moves in the ooze, it pops up to see them. A white fost of a snake like creature with cobra type hood and a nasty little mouth. Despite being s**t scared, one of them is all " ah...come here, come on " like it was a kitten.................????????????????????????????????????????? and then of course it attackes.

Sorry but if that ugly little thing had popped up in front of me, I would have legged it. Certainly would not have been treating it like a cute kitten. Badly written scene. Just jarred.



I cant argue for what you would have done. One was scared other more surprised. I for my self have seen my share of dumb people on you tube pissing on electrical wires and gotten eaten by bears and lions after venturing out side their cars to pet them. These guys was prospectors (working for Wyland). No offense to working class heroes but they werent the “office” type of guys. Also they found the chamber when moving out or atleast moving in the opposite direction after the scanner found movement. Here they got intercepted. Also who said the aliens was to be dangerous at this time?

And they wasn’t lost either as you beleive. Remember one of the them had the digimap. They ventured away on their own business not being part of the science team (this scene was actually shown). But when the others bugged out cause the storm they were too far off to have time to didi (or nobody notified them don’t recall).

Hicks27 wrote:
I agree with the religious nut job element. The sacrifice to create life had to be symbolic or it does not make sense.



Most likely. I have seen humans commiting suicide for far less and far more bizarre things. I recall Jesus from ancient history.

Hicks27 wrote:
However, creating the bio weapons which they could not control ( hence being wiped out on the LV423 derelict), does not make sense. If they used this as a weapon to clean the earth for their terraforming, then when they returned to earth, they would have been confronted by all sorts of aliens, made up from all the nastiest creatures that had evolved on earth and been morphed into new alien forms..



Actually if you saw the film it only happened if a human give birth to cross breed, they never tested this, it was a fluke. Looking at the first subject he only grows into a mutant berserker that was pretty tough. Not an alien. Who knows how long he would be like this? Probably die within a short time to be effective for later clean up.

Also the assertion that they would wipe out earth is also only a suggestion. We might get more information in later episodes or extended versions.

Hicks27 wrote:
..not a nice thought when they could not even deal with the first step alien evolution in the derelict.



You mean the first Derelict in 79? It was actually killed, that’s why the crew died (ship got too damaged by acid) and put up the warning signal. Ship was full of primed eggs. Also that’s why the later giger alien has a limited life span, so they can go down and conquer the world after a while, and then collect all the eggs.

Hicks27 wrote:
As for the dead engineers, where were all the dead first gen aliens ( AS SEEN AT THE VERY END )? Or did they commit mass suicide??



We didn’t see what the engineers were running from. It might just have been an alarm that there was a breach, much as was to happen in a normal Bio lab containing hazardous biological strains. The “1st gen “ actually arrived from a human cross breed and did probably not having anything to do with the engineers 3000 years earlier. Also I believe there is an internal engineer side plot not explained, ex why didn’t the last survivor pull out? Also for example what was the connection between the alien DNA and the engineers. See, in the chamber the alien fresque was the same place where the engineers placed their religious head. Goes back to the old stories about the ancient alien temple where they found the Aliens from the beginning in O’bannons story.

Also as of Scotts/Gigers original assertion of the Alien living three days to become more “controllable” could mean even if there was something hunting them it probably died way by it self after a while.

Hicks27 wrote:
Surely such an advanced race would not view us as a nuisance ( are we going back to the day the earth stood still again? ) bit lame and been done to death.



You think too high of them. We tried to get rid of jews not long ago and we have the same DNA. How does that spell? This besides the above about being a suggestion.

Hicks27 wrote:
Struggling to make sense of it unless the ultimate answer is full of huge holes in script development. Would love some assistance with this. Maybe my tiny brain is not up to the task.



No, I think you were too upset of what you saw and got so frustrated and embarrassed you missed the details. Also as opposed to other Holly wood franchise Cameron and Scott takes really good care of what we see. They don’t show anything that they don’t have thoughts about. Thats why I take my time writing this. If it was a Bruckenheimer film I would laugh and get my self some popcorn.


Hicks27 wrote:
How about getting Gigers Alien back and bringing back the scares. I think the lack of the Giger Alien was disappointing. I know the creature has been ruined in 3, 4 AVP etc. But Ridley could have done it propely again.



Don’t worry it probably will.

Hicks27 wrote:
Do we all miss the Giger Alien?



I personally miss the colonial marines more.

Hope it clears some things up.

/ Jonsey


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:10 pm 
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I want more Colonial Marines too. Shame this was a prequel really :D

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 Post subject: Re: Prometheus - Seen it. My thoughts. CONTAINS SPOILERS!!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:27 pm 
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Going to see it tomorrow night in 3D with mates and a beer afterwards to discuss it. Should be interesting as they are big Alien fans.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:36 pm 
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And there lies most of the problem, most have gone to see it expecting an alien movie which it is not, same universe yes but its abit like watching star trek voyager and being dissapointed when you dont get to see the Enterprise, as for this 1st gen or proto alien as it is being refered to how can it be that when the ship on LV 426 crashed there long before the events in prometheous therefore by that time the xenos we know already exist

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:45 pm 
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nocternus wrote:
same universe yes but its abit like watching star trek voyager and being dissapointed when you dont get to see the Enterprise,


It's a bit like watching Star Trek Voyager and being disappointed when the humans are depicted as being biological robots seeded by 400 year old nazis that live on the moon (Nazis are actually bald white squirrels underneath their nazi costumes). The Vulcans decided to give long-distance space travel a shot after they went into a cave in Milton Keynes and found a model rocket that was made from a washing-up liquid bottle on Blue Peter by Valerie Singleton in 1968. The planet Vulcan is blown up in the second episode.

The Klingon's weird heads are caused by an allergy to Chinese food (which also, in rare conditions, can cause them to spontaneously give birth to tribbles which turn into something that looks a little like a Gorn by way of a complex and inelegant life-cycle when they are left alone in a room for 20 minutes). Add an implied Hentai sub-plot with Janeway and a particularly ugly squid (but the squid has the less annoying speaking voice of the two).

And all this is implicitly applied to The Original Series because it all happened long before TOS and was directed by Gene Roddenberry (via séance).

All of the above are valid theories, and might even fit in with the established canon. It just seems odd (and upsetting) compared with my interpretations and imaginings coming from Next Gen.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:44 pm 
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Gareth your thinking to much lol

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 Post subject: Re: Prometheus - Seen it. My thoughts. CONTAINS SPOILERS!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:46 am 
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When i came out from watching Prometheus i thought ...'This is going to divide the fans ' this film is like Marmite you will either love it or hate it .. this thread is going to run for sometime ... Ridley wanted for some years to do a Film about the origins of the Space Jockey (he talks about it in the commentary on the Alien Quadrioligy right at the end of the film ), this is the first of the films , im sure a sequel is on the cards if we want it or not ..

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:07 am 
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Well, at least it's STILL better than AvP:R

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:41 am 
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Very well put, Sir! =]

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:11 pm 
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Mantroon wrote:
The question is, was it Scott (or the studio) thinking "we can't get away with this amount of self indulgent drivel without piggy backing off of a popular franchise, otherwise we won't make our money back". Sadly, I am thinking this might be true, and so, the Alien franchise (which has been abused a lot over the years) was dragged out of the stable for another bloody brutal beating...


Agreed - without the ALIEN connection (which apparently most people don't see...), it would just be a modern 2001:A Space Odyssey rehash. And without the ALIEN shoe-horning, it might have been a better film.

I don't know if I want to write at length about it, at least not publicly. But there is quite a lot of material - I'd say the film falls short scientifically, logically, and theologically - even ignoring what it implies for ALIEN. I'd like an explanation of the very last shot before the credits - I would have found the whole film much more palatable without it.

But, it's the film that Scott wanted to make, it's making loads of money and it's generally only a small group of fans who thought too hard about ALIEN that don't like it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:58 pm 
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When I left the cinema I was in a real state of bewilderment.

I simply didn't know what to think. My initial reaction was disappointment. However having thought about it over a few days I have started to warm to the film. That being said I still feel as if one of my fondest memories has been stomped over.

I certainly feel that I am wanting more, wanting answers to questions and I guess in that instance the cash cow has succeeded.

Bottom line is that for all the anticipation and excitement I felt for seeing a new chapter in one of my favourite franchises, this fan has been left with a bitter taste

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:03 pm 
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BITTER TASTE STEP IN LINE!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Prometheus - Seen it. My thoughts. CONTAINS SPOILERS!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Must admit, I left the cinema feeling empty and confused and not knowing what I thought too.

I will give it the second viewing without any expectations this time and hope its a better movie as a result.

It does take the Alien piss a bit.

All we need to wait for is Zack Ethron as a young Harrison Ford in a prequel Blade Runner.

Ridley....STEP AWAY FROM THE CAMERA...

In Space, they bloody well will hear us scream!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:57 pm 
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I genuinely don't think it is the tragedy you are all making it out to be. Maybe your expectations were too high, or too different? I DO agree, some bits of the film were pointless mess that added nothing, but other parts I thoroughly enjoyed. And some bits made me want to cheers at, to be honest.

I don't think it was as bad a movie as A4 or AvP:R. I personally went prepared for the fact it wasn't going to answer every question (although wasn't prepared for all the new ones, too), and I didn't expect it to be Alien again. Nor did I think it was going to measure up. I TRIED to have no preconceptions when I went in. Maybe that's why enjoyed most of it. Who know.

But I disagree that it's the disaster some claim. Just in my opinion of course

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 Post subject: Re: Prometheus - Seen it. My thoughts. CONTAINS SPOILERS!!
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:12 pm 
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The creature coda rings a bell
Attachment:
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I wonder if Ridley was pressured to tack on this ending by Fox? Seems a little forced


I really love Prometheus though. It is flawed, which I put down to a tight edit. There's stuff from the trailer missing from the film, such as what looks like more of a fight between Elizabeth Shaw and Ian 'Engineer' Whyte. Seemed like it missed a dramatic beat at that point.
In the theatrical cut she simply opens the door and the creature gets him right away. Maybe it's just a quick shot that's been omitted, maybe the scene was more extensive.
Cut shot:
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This shot was cut as well. Weyland is there and two guys are firing (seemingly in different directions) on the Prometheus. There is no such action sequence in the film. There must've been an incident before Weyland is actually taken to awaken the surviving Engineer:
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I learned today that the original cut was 2:27 so I'm hoping Ridley will put a longer version out. IMO this movie needs one as much as Blade Runner or Kingdom of Heaven did. He has said "Never say never".
So I really hope we'll get another cut. If they don't put one out then there's bound to be fan edits using deleted scenes so it would be a shame if that was the only alternative.
For that reason I think it'd be worth Ridley locking it down.
That said, I do think it's a great movie as it is. No Alien or Aliens but it rocks for me.

As for all the unanswered questions, people asked them of Alien and Blade Runner for decades.
Imagine if there were no sequels to Alien. Consider all the questions people would still be speculating on.
In all fairness, Ridley and Lindelof have said for well over a year now that this movie precedes Alien but has little to do with it.
I think it sort of shocked us with just how true that is, contrary to the aesthetic seen in the trailers.

Ridley said on Mark Kermode's show that we're two more movies away from the original Alien.
Let's hope he gets the sequels because I'd love to see where this story goes. It's awesome and I think it will become a classic.


Last edited by ADC on Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:50 am 
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Out of interest, was I the only one who thought the transgender thing was a bit pointless in the end? Bit too subtle and really served no purpose

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 Post subject: Re: Prometheus - Seen it. My thoughts. CONTAINS SPOILERS!!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:54 pm 
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There's a rather interesting and revealing interview with Sir Ridley over at Movies.com (not sure if Willie posted this somewhere?). Like Blade Runner, some of the more ambiguous subtext is finding definition courtesy of Ridley's insight:
http://www.movies.com/movie-news/ridley ... rview/8232

Some ideas will no doubt prove controversial:
Quote:
Movies.com: You throw religion and spirituality into the equation for Prometheus, though, and it almost acts as a hand grenade. We had heard it was scripted that the Engineers were targeting our planet for destruction because we had crucified one of their representatives, and that Jesus Christ might have been an alien. Was that ever considered?

RS: We definitely did, and then we thought it was a little too on the nose. But if you look at it as an “our children are misbehaving down there” scenario, there are moments where it looks like we’ve gone out of control, running around with armor and skirts, which of course would be the Roman Empire. And they were given a long run. A thousand years before their disintegration actually started to happen. And you can say, “Lets’ send down one more of our emissaries to see if he can stop it. Guess what? They crucified him.


Some pics of the beastie from the concept art book:
Attachment:
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Screen shot 2012-06-07 at 5.31.27 PM.png [ 1.33 MiB | Viewed 5721 times ]

More here:
http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2012/06/07/eve ... more-12632


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:34 pm 
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So yeah, no one pick up on the transgender thing?


Also,I agree with those who say we're missing some major scenes in this edit. For example, I can only account for 14 of the crew of 17 so far. (any help in this regard would be ace)

So, we have Shaw and her man Holloway - 2
Vickers and David, with the captain and his 2 co-pilots - 7
The geologist and the biologist - 9
The Scottish doctor, the ginger Irish security man - 11
And unless I missed any, 3 were killed by Zombie-astronaut. That makes for a total of 14. So there are 3 crew missing (2 if you count Weyland in that 17, but doubt that tbf). Any ideas? or are we indeed missing something?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:53 pm 
Pint of AB negative please
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ok i will bite, what do you mean transgender thing?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:23 am 
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Right, a couple of my mates pointed this out to me, Vickers - coupla little things. She's very tough, very aggressive at times (look at the way she attacks David). Weyland looks at her briefly when he calls David the son he never had (this alone is innocuous enough) but when Shaw tries to use the emergency medi-pod it's set for males only. Odd considering that it was Vickers personal escape pod and she'd obviously have to use it, no? Also, at the start, she is up and out the room before the rest awaken, and robes up quickly with David's assistance. Not something that struck me at first, but when the first mate mentioned it, it kinda clicked a little - is Vickers more than she appears?
Or are we picking up the wrong signals? Hahaha entirely possible too

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