Wow.

Rob, mate... it is looking awesome.

Don't post offen, but I am always here. Felt this thread deserved a moment of my time!

There's nothing inappropriate in this thread. He's not making a firing weapon after all. If MI-5, the Postal Service, the Milkman or whoever is in charge of arresting model builders these days has issues with it, I'm sure they'll speak up.

Creativity such as this will be welcomed here as long as I'm around.

Russ

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"A writer needs a pen, a painter a brush, and a filmmaker an army." - Orson Wells.

http://www.rookscastle.com
http://www.alchemyarms.com

here here! keep up the great work Rob and keep them update pics coming! Think Eagle was just saying be a bit aware of who you show the pics to.

Whilst Rob's craftsmanship is to be commended, Eagle does have a point. As I see it Jester is technically 'manafacturing a RIF' which by UK Law is illegal under the VCRA. Irrespective of whether it's a firing weapon or not, he is a UK citizen under UK law and he is posting his progress here on this board which is a public board open to anyone to see.

Will you be around if someone saw what Jester is doing here on this board ( as innocent from a prop building viewpoint as it is with no ill intent or intended malice on Jesters part ) and reported it? No you wont be.

It's a great thing to see the buildup, but under the current climate towards replicas and the VCRA here in the UK at the moment, excercising some caution is the order of the day and openly publicising doing something that falls under that legislation needs some careful consideration.

Not trying to pisson anyones fire here - just saying to be cautious.

 
^ My point exactly. This board could be held accountable for 'aiding and abetting' the illegal build of an illegal RIF (website owners in the UK are legally responsible for the content published).

A quote from the Blaster Builders Club:

Again, I don't want to see these threads/builds disappearing - but at the same time I don't want this forum being closed down either.


 

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"Everybody online... lookin' good".
.

Understood about the UK concerns. I wouldn't want jester to end up in jail (or any of the rest of you either) just for making a prop gun, no matter how great a replica it is.

What a sad little world we live in these days.

Russ

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"A writer needs a pen, a painter a brush, and a filmmaker an army." - Orson Wells.

http://www.rookscastle.com
http://www.alchemyarms.com

May i refer you gentlemen to my last post, why waste time and effort debating it, i have enough problems in my life without adding more to them this was supposed to be a fun thing for me to do and was, up until now,cheers ,Rob

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diamond geezer
The Turtle Moves

hi Rob, please don't be upset or disheartened by what is being said. we are only concerned about what might happen if someone in authority saw your pictures and you ended up in big trouble with the law etc. I can tell you now that we all here think you are doing a fantastic job on this build and can't wait to see more of it, we're just saying watch your back incase someone see's it who then informs the police etc.

but then again i know of other PR builds on the net right now using real gun parts so your not the only one mate.

we are only looking out for a fellow Marine (you).

please please please keep posting your progress

Rob, it's 100% not a case that people aren't interested in what you are doing or feel uncomfortable with you posting your progress here. Just read back through the positive comments that have been made since you started this thread.

What I'm getting at is that with this current legislation flying around, we have to be cautious in what we do. I would hate to think that someone would show their work and ( as unlikely as it may be )instead end up dropping themselves in it with the law because they were posting their progress on a public board and it was picked up on.

Your intentions and effort with this build are A1 and I dare say nobody is questioning that in any way shape or form. We've all got out own little projects on the go here and there. Sometimes though it pays to look at the bigger picture and decide whether it's worth keeping things under your hat so to speak.

Not saying do, not saying don't , just saying have a think about it mate.

Maybe I'm not paranoid enough, but I don't think law enforcement officers in the UK are trolling message boards looking for people building prop guns so they can bust them.

Has there been any indication that's happening? Technically speaking, they could never know who the poster is unless they had admin abilities anyway.

Right?

So, are the mods supposed to censor UK members from posting progress pics of their pulse rifle builds because the build MAY be illegal?

Is it the same thing as a member posting images of murder or rape just because it may be illegal?

Eagle, springer, are you boys police officers, lawyers, judges? Do you know what's considered illegal from a scratch building standpoint? Does the law cover scratch building, or just purchasing replicas? How familiar with the laws are you guys?

Jester, don't leave and don't let other members get you down.

If you've posted images that are technically images of you performing an illegal activity, that's for the mods to worry about, not other UK members.

Just my thoughts and feelings.

Allow me please to calm the extreme paranoia in this thread, and help poor Rob out of the chaos...

The amendments to the VCR that would affect Rob, read as follows:

Sections 36 to 38: Realistic imitation firearms

15. Section 36 makes it an offence to manufacture, import or sell realistic imitation firearms.

23. Section 38 defines a "realistic imitation firearm" as an imitation firearm which has an appearance that is so realistic as to make it indistinguishable, for all practical purposes, from a real firearm. "Imitation firearm" is defined in section 57(4) of the Firearms 1968 as "any thing which has the appearance of being a firearm...whether or not it is capable of discharging any shot, bullet or other missile"

OK... so if you were to manufacture a PR now in the UK, it it WOULD actually be an offence...
However, it cannot be an offence if you had built the PR long before the bill was passed

Therefore... Rob is fine.

He has merely been showing us the progress of his PR which he had finished a long time ago. I just wish he posted his progess pictures more often and wouldn't keep us on the edge of seats like this, the swine!!

 

Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 5:57 pm
As far as I can see, this was still a work in progress in May 08.

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"Everybody online... lookin' good".
.

Yeah . . . . I think you missed the missed the point of treeboars post entirely.

I can't believe I'm even bothering to reply to this post but there you go. I shall do so then i'm done with this.

Eagle especially and myself ( among a lot of others here on this board ) are more familiar with this legislation than what you are , and I would dare say more familiar with it than the OP posting his progress. I will point out that not one person here is trying to get Rob down and to suggest so is bollocks to be frank.Not one person here is making any demands or requirements. I certainly didn't sit here and think ' Hmm that MAYBE illegal so i'll make a post about it' . There is no 'might be' involved here. If you had read the whole thread and knew the legislation then you wouldn't be posing that question in the first place. Rob is an adult and we've given some advice. What he choses to do with that advice is of course upto him.

What we are doing is waving a flag saying ' just be cautious what you are posting' with regards to this. Not only in what you post, but in the way you do it and the way you word it.THAT is the message both myself and Eagle are sending out. Why? I have done so because I don't believe Rob is fully aware of how the VCRA sits with regards to what he is doing or indeed whether he is fully aware of the potential trouble he could get into by doing something as genuinely innnocent as his build. I'm not saying he WILL get in truble , but that he COULD.

And who are you to say that it's just for the mods to worry about and not other UK members? The Mods havnt stepped in yet and even said anything about it or if they have then it's not apparent, so do we as UK AliensLegacy members just sit here,turn a blind eye to it and bury our heads in the sand because were not moderators? I'm alright Jack, I'm not a Mod so it's not my problem. Nice attitude.

Or do we take some initiative and bring the issue up for consideration? I'd rather do the latter and be ill thought of, rather than do the former.

I really don't see how being a cop or a brief makes any difference to whether you have knowledge of a piece of legislation or not. Beats me that one. By all means take up Treeboars idea. To do so is admitting that both me and Eagle have a valid point.

I'm done here.

Well, here we go again.



You are such a hot head, and I don't get it. You flame away like you've got a license.



OK - WHY? Are you invovled in law enforcement? Airsoft? What? Or do you just "know it" because you've read it on the internet? I read it on the internet, but haven't seen or heard much real world application beyong shipping problems.

From what I've read, the bill is about surpressing "manufacturing" not scratching building one replica and hanging it on your wall.

And also, from what I've read, if he creates a bright orange shroud, he's perfectly legal to finish his build.

But, this is my own intepretation of the bill, and also information I've seen posted on some of the threads and posts from other message boards.



And I'm asking you how you know this, why you know this, and if anyone has gotten into trouble previously that you know of, in the real world, for scratch building a prop gun.

Instead of answering my question, you flamed me for asking it.



I explained that one.



That's who I am to say it.

Next time, instead of reading into my post, just READ my post. Go ahead, go back and read my post without reading into it.

From what I've read, law enforcement, and the postal service are not quite sure about how to apply the new law.

I'm wondering, as stated, where scratchbuilding falls into it.

Njc-----------

 
Scratchbuilding is the same as manufacturing.

I'm saddened by what's transpiring here. I was only looking out for a fellow member and the board in general.

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"Everybody online... lookin' good".
.

Seriously, I don't understand how this thread has degraded into another debate about the VCRA.

Eagle merely pointed out that, under new legislation, Jester COULD get in trouble for posting progress pics of his build. He doesn't need to be a lawyer or an airsofter or anything else to know about legislation that has come into play.

I am not personally aware of anyone getting into trouble yet but that doesn't mean that they won't of course.

However, let's just assume that some nice bright orange shrouds will be the finishing touch to this work and then there will be nothing illegal about it. Because unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, yes, scratch building a Pulse Rifle - even just to hang on your wall at home- is now illegal under the new laws.

Noeland is right in that there hasn't really been any problems (that I am aware of) as a result of these laws yet but that is probably just a matter of time. Of course, as we ALL now know, there is nothing to stop you collecting and making replica weapons- just go airsofting, even if you don't like it. I really don't see these laws as being a problem for anyone.

Personally I would suggest that all the recent posts be deleted so as not to detract from what was otherwise a great thread.


Cheers

Darren

Hear, Hear!

We've made Jester aware of the possible problems. And a bright orange shroud (even if it exists only in photoshop ... ) would make this build, as depicted in this thread, compliant with the VCRA

Well, this is really the heart of my question. I don't believe they are the same.

Manufacturing as the American heritage defines it is done to create a product for sale, and done to create many copies. It even goes so far as to reference 'industrial machinery" in it's deinfitions.

My entire point was simply that a single scratch build may well not be covered by the bill.



As am I.



I'd like that as well. Jester, hope we didn't scare you off.

Do the laws forgive airsoft players? Do you need a permit or something to play airsoft? Something that you can show the authorities if they come knocking?

Hey, Jester . . . Hows your build going anyway?

where did that lot come from i have been posting my build here for what 5/6 months,on allmost every subject i have posted pertaining to this build i have asked for advice ideas comments and feedback to the point of pleading ,in case you missed it "thats why i joined this forum",if you people knew i was going wrong and making a tit of myself, why the hell didnt someone speak out sooner and put me back on the right path, "thats why i joined", This forum prides itself on being different from the others , friendly open and willing to accept anyone, once again "thats why i joined" unfortunately as in life in general not all the members here seem able to live up to that simple statement, and lets stir up the forum reared its ugly head, a simple PM to me would have prevented all this crap ,there are ways and ways to pass information and in this case i and many others venture the wrong decision was made for whatever reason,i have tried to be polite,friendly and open with anyone that i have dealt with on the forum or in pm's or mails ,anyone that has been in contact with me will attest to that so in future if i go wrong drop me a line and say so "THATS WHY I JOINED" I have to say a realy big thank you to all the people who have sent me messages of support and help through these past couple of days my mailbox has never worked so hard i wont pick out anyone in particular you know who you all are ,just know you have my thanks perhaps friendlyskies has the right idea and if possible by the powers that be can these last few days be consigned to the waste bin where they clearly belong, apparently i have a bright orange pulse rifle to finish building ,catch you all further down the page,all the best , Rob

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diamond geezer
The Turtle Moves

glad to hear your going to continue the build Rob

I wouldnt dream of letting you down mate if it came to it i would paddle across the solent and stick the pictures in your hand personally thanks nick all the best , Rob

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diamond geezer
The Turtle Moves

I too would hate to see progress pictures end. This thread has been the driving force in my build. You are truly talented, and should be proud to post your hard work for all to see.

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What ever tape you found in that VCR isn't mine.

Glad to hear that things will continue moving forward. You've done a great job and I'd hate to see other factors getting in the way. This thread has been an excellent example of what makes these boards so great: passionate, excited people sharing their efforts while their peers praise and encourage them for a job well done.

Cant wait to see those shrouds!

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-Brian
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"Engineers are merciless men bent on the nullification of art and the worship of functionalism" -Garrison Keilor