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UKCM Ranks announcement
http://forum.alienslegacy.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5351		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  friendlyskies [ Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  UKCM Ranks announcement
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Author:  friendlyskies [ Mon Dec 15, 2008 5:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Amendment to drop count for some of the Wall crew as I did not include the Collectormania event in August. Sorry guys.
As a result of that though Azriel is now a Pfc :)

Cheers

Darren
Author:  Sidewinder [ Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:01 pm ]
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Big thanks to D for doing this, never thought i'd done 16 drops!!

SAS
Author:  Harry Harris [ Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:09 pm ]
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What Si said. I didn't realise I'd done 10 either - nice one!

Harry
Author:  Scapey [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:06 am ]
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Darren - What events do and do not count as drops?
There've been a few events that various members of the Wall crew have done up here for Children In Need and the Dream comic shop - You got those in there?

( And aye, thanks for putting the work into this :) )
Author:  friendlyskies [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Just amended Dangerous Rick's figure to 10 drops. Missed off the NSC 07. This now makes our most dangerous member a Corporal, well done mate.

Rev: I guess this is something that could be open to interpretation and will no doubt have to be "discussed". Not in this thread though please. I would rather keep this thread clear of anything else and just use it to amend peoples drop counts and ranks where appropriate.

Cheers

Darren
Author:  JediFraz [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Edit.

Upon discussion with my squadmates. Can you remove the Hadrians Wall from the drop count thread. Thanks.
Author:  Sidewinder [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:35 pm ]
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If that's the case Fraz, why do you have a drop ribbon thingy in your sig?

SAS :roll:
Author:  JediFraz [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:36 pm ]
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That's a carry over from when going to drops itself was reason enough.

Now though they're being counted. Never mind that the fact The Wall guys are 200 miles away so people in England will hit more drops because they're local. Never mind that..

Your right though I'll delete the ribbon.
Author:  Sidewinder [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:27 pm ]
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You really think people are gonna go to drops just to up their count and maybe get a higher 'rank'??

Yes, never mind that 'Wall guys are not gonna get to as many drops as other members - 'cos since when has anyone in the UKCM boasted about their drop count or used it in an i'm better than u way??

I made no suggestion u should delete your ribbon thingy - that's your choice.

SAS
Author:  Scapey [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:00 pm ]
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Si, I think you're missing the point and misunderstanding how Fraz ( And myself ) feel about this...

Of course nobody would go to a Drop "Just to increase their Drop count".
We go to Drops to hang out with our friends whilst strapping tupperware to ourselves.

Which is precisely why dishing out rank based on how many events one has attended is disingeneous.

Initially, promotions were given based upon merit - If you did something for the benefit of the group, or did something particularly silly or funny... You got a promotion.

Promotions in and of themselves mean nothing. Rank in and of itself means nothing.
Our highest ranking member is still Harry, I believe?
But if Harry orders me to do something ( don't panic, Cheesemeister, I know you never would! I'm just using your rank as an example :) ) - Hell, I probably WOULD do it because I trust the guy and trust his judgement.
But it'd be nothing to do with any made-up rank we've given him.

Same goes for anyone with more stripes than me - they wear those stripes because the UKCM as a whole feel that they have done something to merit a reward... And most of us are too tight to simply buy that person a pint.


Rank is a way of saying "Dude, you rock."

Take the Aliens Legacy Gold Awards as another example - If I got a phonecall from Techo Viking saying "Hey man, I have a spare Gold Award here. Want it?

I would say "No thanks" faster than if someone had offered me a cup of herbal tea.
Because I've not earned it.



I think a far better way of acknowledging Drop counts would be to introduce some kinda funky "Service medal".

It would become another tradition, and we all know how much the Marine corp hate tradition ;)
Author:  friendlyskies [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:01 pm ]
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Having been informed of the Hardian Wall Crew's opinion on this, what was meant to be a nice thing to simply recognise that people have attended X amount of drops. I have to say that as far as I'm concerned the whole thing can be scrapped.

It's not my fault that there are less drops in Scotland and it's not my problem either. I don't have time for it if people are going to take the whole thing too seriously and have a hissy fit over it.

Simon is right, that no one talks about their "rank" at drops and as I said above they don't mean anything anyway in any real sense. I can't understand the problem with this myself but there you go. The system only extends as far as the rank of Sgt anyway and after that (and even before) people will still recieve promotions on merit anyway. This was simply intended so that people wouldn't get overlooked or forgotten about.

No one is "counting" your drops in the sense that you mean Fraz and simply attending is still enough. I really don't see where your problem lies other than there are less drops in Scotland.

Like I said though, I can't be arsed with crap like this. I have enough problems in my life without dealing with this sort of childish nonsense.

Scrap the system and consider me no longer anything to do with it.
Author:  Scapey [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:05 pm ]
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Not sure if you posted that before or after reading what I said, Darren, but please chill out.

We Drop to have fun.
Childish nonsense? Dude, we dress up as soldiers and pretend to chase aliens!:p
Author:  friendlyskies [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:24 pm ]
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I was chilled out until I was forced to take this whole thing seriously which is exactly what I said it wasn't to start with.

Instead of any of the Wall crew speaking to me or making any kind of contact to voice their opinion or discuss it with me your first reaction is to go on the board and ask for your whole squads names to be removed. If any of the squads within the UKCM are not part of this then the whole thing is pointless anyway.

I'll say it one last time, this was only ever intended as nice gesture to recognise that people have attended X amount of drops and make sure that people dont get forgotten about.

The number of drops available in Scotland is not my fault. You could still be promoted by merit anyway. This is not some sort of who's been to the most drops contest and never will be.

The old and still in effect system of getting pissed and doing something stupid or having your name pulled out of a hat would still have remained intact.

Quote:
Rank is a way of saying "Dude, you rock."


Does being recognised as having been to 10 drops or 20 drops not count as enough to just do something by way of recognition then?

Personally, I would say no to Gold Wings at the moment as well but if I had been to 20 drops I think I would appreciate that being recognised but that's just me.

As I said this whole thing has been taken way too seriously and I don't have the time or inclination for it.
Author:  Sidewinder [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:28 pm ]
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Scapey, I got the point fully and understand certain people dont want to count drops etc. for whatever reason.

Fraz, its very easy to poo poo others ideas and go off in a huff, how about offering constructive comments instead?

D, a simple solution could be to ignore the HW people and operate this system for everyone else (who seem to be quite happy with the idea).

SAS
Author:  Scapey [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Personally speaking, I had Gareth on MSN so spoke to him about it at the time, before composing my response above.

Like I said - I think a seperate form of recognition for drop attendance would be nicer than lumping it in with rank.

Perhaps a set of gold earrings with a bigger pile of bones at the bottom the more Drops you make? :)
Author:  friendlyskies [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Reverend Scapegoat wrote:
Personally speaking, I had Gareth on MSN so spoke to him about it at the time, before composing my response above.

Like I said - I think a seperate form of recognition for drop attendance would be nicer than lumping it in with rank.

Perhaps a set of gold earrings with a bigger pile of bones at the bottom the more Drops you make? :)


I'm not Gareth and your response was still after Fraz spoke for the "whole" of the HW crew and asked to be removed.
This was discussed with Gareth before I made the annoucement and isn't something I unilaterally came up with.

An increase in rank does not require a "medal" or thing to be physically given to someone, which would require producing.

Giving someone something, of any kind, for attending X amount of drops is no different to giving them a promotion anyway. It's still just a "recognition" of them having attended 5 or 10 or whatever amount of drops.

The rank system only goes as far as Sgt anyway. After that, you would have to earn the promotion through merit. Before that you could still earn promotion through merit.

Si, I dont think segregating is a good idea as it causes disunion (sp?) within the group mate.
Author:  Pug50 [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would like to take responsibility for this little mess.

Darren consulted me about the new system of ranks and because I believed that ranks meant nothing to anyone in the UKCM, I didn't give it much thought. I didn't think it needed changing, but at the same time I didn't see any problems with the new system.

Ironically, if I didn't respect the contribution that the Wall crew have made to the UKCM then I would have said "Stop being silly; like it or lump it". However, I do and won't say that so I think we have to forget about this new system and return to the old system.

I'd like to thank Darren for the considerable work he's put in to this and I apologise to him that I didn't see this coming.
Author:  friendlyskies [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't think you need to take blame for anything Gareth but since you concur that the whole thing should be scrapped then that is what we shall do.

Cheers

Darren
Author:  Scapey [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
friendlyskies wrote:

I'm not Gareth and your response was still after Fraz spoke for the "whole" of the HW crew and asked to be removed.
This was discussed with Gareth before I made the annoucement and isn't something I unilaterally came up with.


Just for the record here, Fraz posted that at the same time he told me on MSN that he was about to do so - And the reason I talked to Gareth on MSN is that he and I had already briefly discussed it, and he happened to be on MSN at the time.
Author:  Padsbrat [ Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
I feel I should add something to this discussion.

I think what we, the Hadrians Wall, are trying to say is basing a rank system, regardless how lax, on the number of events attended would only generate a disparity that would naturally favour those of our members in the south of our island as that is where 90% of all drops occur.

We cannot justify traveling 300 miles (one way) for a one day event for example. Which many of the drops are.

A system based on attendance will discriminate against those of us less fortunate either by coin or location.
That, is what we do not agree with.

Now, a special medal/ribbon for attending 5, 10, 15 or more drops would be more acceptable as that would class as an additional "award" on top of the merit awards, which ranks currently serve as.

So Ranks would be a sign of merit.
Medals a sign of dedication.

Seems simple to me.
Author:  friendlyskies [ Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
The system is scrapped as stated. There is nothing more to add to this.

If you want to come up with a "simple" system as you say then I suggest you run it past Gareth. Of course, any kind of award for amount of drops attended would still be "discriminatory" to our Scottish brethren since you don't have as many drops to go to. So I would say forget the whole thing and probably just delete this thread entirely.

D
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